Breaking the Line: The ECNL Podcast
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Breaking the Line: The ECNL Podcast
Navigating College Soccer Recruitment: Stand Out and Find Your Right Fit | Ep.96
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Prepare to unlock the secrets of soccer success and navigate the path to college recruitment like a pro! Ever wondered about the intricacies of recruiting in youth soccer? Our discussion is set to shed light on this complex arena, underscoring the differences between boys' and girls' recruiting landscapes and the critical role of balanced competition. Gain practical advice on choosing the right college fit and maintaining a healthy perspective on recruitment. Learn about the importance of genuine passion for the game and how long-term dedication can lead to sustained success. Whether you're a young athlete or a supportive parent, this episode is packed with valuable knowledge to help navigate the complex world of youth soccer recruitment. Tune in and get ready to take your game to the next level!
Welcome to Season 2 of Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast, featuring ECNL President and CEO Christian Labors and Vice President Doug Bracken. If you have a question you want answered on Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast, email us at info at the ECNL dot com. I'm Dean Leakey and here's what you can expect on this week's show. On this week's show, first off joining Christian and Doug once again is Ashley Willis, the Partnership Activation and Alumni Relations Manager for the ECNL. And what you can expect on this week's show, based on the questions that came in, is a quick reminder to check out episode 93 and 94 for all you need to know about the all-important topic and debate about relative age effect and trap players. So you'll hear these three immediately dive into playoffs for both the ECNL National side and ECNL Regional League, and then they will switch heading in to segment two talking about the importance of player ID and college recruiting. And they'll do all of that after we hear from Continental Tire.
Speaker 1:This is Dean Linke with a special message from my good friends at Continental Tire Enter for a chance to win the Continental Tire EC&L Sweepstakes. The first 2,500 entries will receive a custom mini scarf, plus one randomly selected fan will win an all-expense, paid trip to the All-Star Game in Columbus, ohio, july 15th through 18th. Visit continentaltireecnlvotigocom to enter now. Official rules apply. Welcome back and, as we often do, to start the new format of Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast, I turn it over to the CEO and president of the ECNL.
Speaker 2:Christian Labors. Thanks a lot, Dean, for that introduction. As always, I think we'll just jump straight into this. We got Ashley on camera for the first time in a couple of weeks, not traveling in service of the ECNL all over the country. So welcome back, Ashley. Good to see you.
Speaker 3:Thank you. My Wi-Fi works. I'm not in an airport, we're thriving today.
Speaker 2:Well, fantastic. So let's just dive straight into this. Obviously, we've talked about RAE, trap players and that sort of stuff, and I think there's still a lot of questions on that. But maybe you can give us a sense of the questions that have come in over the last week.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm looking at all of the questions right now and I would say a healthy 14 of them are specifically to RAE track players and things like that, which is fantastic that people are listening and we've kind of woke the parents up of a hotbed topic, which is awesome to see. But I think the most important part would be just to go back and listen to episodes 93 and 94, where we really dive into it. And then we have Dr Joe on there, of course, and he's just educating us to the degree about it. So I would go back, listen to those, submit more questions after those episodes. We can kind of just go from there on it instead of going three episodes in a row on RAE. It's exciting of a topic as it is.
Speaker 2:All right. So we're going to call a wrap on that. I feel like we've kind of talked through most of the big issues on that and I think the reality also is that there is a discussion moving more and more in the governing bodies and the sanctioning bodies about changing this for fall of 25, potentially, Obviously, there'll be a need for a long road to prepare for that, because it will be disruptive if that's what happens. And, to be clear, we're not saying we absolutely know that's going to happen, but it seems like there's a strong momentum growing in that regard and we'll cross that bridge and talk about that more when it gets there. So let's pivot on this. Doug, it's playoff time. When this podcast releases will be a few days away from the start of the girls' playoffs in Seattle. So let's talk a little bit about the playoff structure, where we are in the ECNL and RL in that structure, why we're at the places we are, how we structure the playoffs and all things that may be interesting in terms of operations and planning for the playoffs.
Speaker 4:Thanks, christian. As we record this podcast, we're in the throes of the RL playoffs. Those have morphed into more of a regional structure, so we have four different events going on around the country West, central, south and East. The reason we did that is obviously to reduce the travel as we parry the teams down to the eight teams that'll make it to the national finals.
Speaker 2:Let's back up. Asha, you were in Dallas, correct?
Speaker 3:I was.
Speaker 2:We lost every single grass field due to the sort of unprecedented rain over the previous weeks. Correct?
Speaker 3:Correct, yes.
Speaker 2:So a huge shout out to you and the rest of the ops team because replacing I think it was 18 grass fields over four days of use and being able to pull that event off. There were some shortening of the games, not massive shortening. Every game got in as scheduled. So huge kudos to you, to I believe Michaela Hampton was the event manager down there.
Speaker 3:Michaela Hampton was the real hero down there, absolutely there.
Speaker 2:Michaela Hampton was the real hero down there, absolutely, and everybody from ops to logistics to creative to league services, for being able to pivot like that. Maybe give us a sense of being on site, what the RL playoffs were like.
Speaker 3:It was a great event, considering that at the 11th hour we lost everything, and I mean credit to Michaela to be able to fix the schedule like that. I think Blaine off site was helping as well, just to be able to pivot, get all the games in, communicate to the parents and players and everything, and there wasn't really any massive hiccups. Of course we had to shorten some games. All of the group play games got shortened to get everyone in, but in the grand scheme of things, parents, coaches were happy that we were playing still and it was going to be the same amount of time for everyone across the board, no matter what complex we're at. We're at four different complexes games from 8am to 7.15pm. So it was long days for the staff but I mean morale was high. I didn't hear any major complaints. They were super appreciative. Just to get in and it wasn't like a complete cluster, which is kind of what we thought it might be, considering Tuesday night was a little bit hectic.
Speaker 2:Well, that's awesome. So, Doug, do you want to go through the other locations where we have RL playoff events kicking off today?
Speaker 4:In the central region, that's in St Louis. In the west we're at Silver Lakes, they're in California, greensboro, for the East playoff. So super excited about those. And then the teams that advance will move on to the ECNL Regional League Finals, which is in Richmond, virginia, in July. So super excited for those teams as they kind of go on that path towards Richmond. And then right kind of as this podcast airs, we have 300 plus teams kind of converging on Seattle where the girls ECNL playoffs will be.
Speaker 4:All these playoffs are the teams that have kind of played through their season and qualified. The crown jewel is the Champions League and that is the top 44 teams in the country based on their finish and their conferences. So 44 teams in U13 through U17 will fight for the Champions League and at the U19 level it'll be the top 16 teams in the country. And then we have some cup competitions also tiered in there at U15, 16, and 17. What happens there in the Champions League is the teams play in their groups, so they're split into groups of four and then they advance. If they advance they go to like a round of 16, which is played also at the playoffs in Seattle, and then the winners of all those round of 16 games would advance to the finals in Richmond. So that's kind of how we get down to the final eight.
Speaker 4:The cup competitions, which is kind of we've touched on this in earlier podcasts which is a way to get more teams playing for something in the post-season, and that is we have the North American Cup, which is at 15, 16, and 17. And then we have the Showcase A and Showcase B cups, which are at 16 and 17. Only their competition is a 16 team knockout competition that ends in Seattle. So those teams go in advance beyond Seattle. To kind of wrap that up, the teams are seated based on how they finished in the season and their conferences. We look at what number of teams qualify from each conference based on honestly trying to get an equal representation across the country from the conferences.
Speaker 2:If you just go and level, we have tiers right Champions League, north American Cup, showcase A, showcase B.
Speaker 2:The presence of the Showcase Cups in the 16 and 17 age group is reflective of the college recruiting process, so you sort of have an arc. That's when most kids are in the peak of recruiting end of U16 year, which is what this is. So they are coming into the biggest year, u17. And so we try and service that make this one of the biggest recruiting events of the entire calendar. And the other piece on that is that if we only did the Champions League and we didn't provide the opportunity at different cups with the size of our league, now and this was more apparent back when we started but a lot of the teams that are in the North American or the showcase, they're teams that in previous years would be state champions. They'd be competing in regional championships under USYS and now that the league has such strength and robust coverage, we need to provide something from them so that they have a championship to play for and an event to go to in June, not just for recruiting but also for those kids to win a trophy.
Speaker 4:One of the things we talked about when we started the league was the experience, and again, you and I talked about this because you had a team win a national championship. I've had a team in USYS, before ECNL existed, where only four teams ever made it that far. I had a team participate in that and you saw the impact that it made on those players to have that experience, and we wanted more teams, more players, to have that experience, and so that's one of the reasons why we decided to have these cup competitions and also, obviously, the college recruiting piece of things. So that's the why behind doing it. The other thing I'll say and I include sometimes us when I say our club, and I think you would agree with this it's brutally hard to win anything.
Speaker 4:I think to win an ECNL national championship is incredibly difficult. There are challenges based on geography and other things that come into play where, if you're in a small geographic market, it's really really tough, and I think just giving people a chance to be successful and feel what it feels like to win something important, I think is a really great experience. We had a team that won the North American Cup a few years ago and it was a really great experience for those kids. So we want to provide that as well, understanding that the absolute pinnacle for us is the Champions League, and those are the teams we're going to really celebrate, because that is the hardest achievement in our league. Those cup winners are also great. It's a great experience for those teams and those players.
Speaker 2:They've talked a lot about the girls side. Let's touch on the boys, because the boys structure is similar in some ways, but it's also different, reflecting some of the desires of the boys game and how it's different from the girls game.
Speaker 4:Slight kind of differences in that a smaller number of teams. To make this as simple as you can, it's a 64 team event at the primary age groups, right, which is 15, 16, and 17. Those teams are split into 16 groups of four and they play out to around a 16. And then they play that round of 16, a lot like we just discussed with the girls to advance to the finals. There's a smaller number at the u14 and u13 level. Still the same concept. They advance to around a 16 and then get down to eight teams. But there are no cups on the boy side.
Speaker 4:We take more teams at the champions league level on the boys' side, or we have. We stop at that. Now, the only caveat to that is at U19, we take 32 teams into the playoffs and the winners on that first day in the round of 32 games they advance onto the Champions League round of 16, which is a knockout. And then the teams that lose on the first day they drop into the North American Cup and that's a 16-team knockout. And then the teams that lose on the first day they drop into the North American Cup and that's a 16-team knockout. So that's just another way for us to just accommodate more teams, recognizing that at U19, on the boys' side there's still really active college recruiting going on for U19 boys, where on the girls' side it's probably not happening, there's a lot of detail.
Speaker 2:I think that almost can make you drown in brackets and cups and tears and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:But so if we zoom back out on a bigger picture and I'd be interested, ashley, in your perspective because on the girls' side, as we just went through, we have multiple levels of competition at the 16-17 age group between Champions League, north American Showcase, on the boys' side it's just all Champions League. Everybody's in one tier. It's a bigger tier. The reason that is is because when we spoke to the boys' directors and watched how the events unfolded, the boys generally aren't interested in a secondary cup. The analogy that was made was sort of the NCAA basketball versus the NIT and the boys said, basically, if you don't make the big dance, the players aren't as interested in participating. But on the girls' side, to Doug's point, the cups, and if you go to those games and see the teams competing for them, they're really excited about that. So there's a very clear difference between sort of the focus between the girls side and the boys side in terms of the competition. Ashley, do you have any opinion on why that may be?
Speaker 3:The best comparison would be the NCAA tournament versus the NIT. I get it from the boys side where once they lose they're just kind of like what's the point anymore? Which is very much like the boys mentality of like one and done sort of thing, where the girls are like no, we can figure out a way to get back in this. It's just kind of like the way the the two genders I think see sports of like there's always a battle, versus like we're done, I'm over it, sort of thing.
Speaker 3:But then when you take in the recruiting piece, like it makes sense that the girls are wanting that extra little piece to kind of go no, no, we're still a great team, I still can go get recruited at this high of a level, this, that and the other thing. So I think it makes sense for the girls to have different cups to kind of play for. Obviously, like the recruiting, and it's the largest event by a landslide to be up there where the boys they're recruiting so different. So I can see them being like hey, if I'm not in the big, the big show, what's the point? Like it's not my recruiting year anyways.
Speaker 4:Well, Christian, you would say that the recruiting difference is what four or five X like opportunities for the girls versus the boys, just because there's just less college programs on the boy's side.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a lot more college programs and opportunity for the girls for sure, and I think that that plays into it a little bit. The other interesting piece as we look at this, because when we went to 64 teams in an age group on the boys' side, there was some concern about how deep does the talent go in terms of balanced competition when team number one plays team number 64, what is that going to look like? That is also another difference between the boys and the girls side, because the Champions League on the girls side is smaller. I think the biggest Champions League we have for the girls is what?
Speaker 2:44? 44, yeah, and speaking on aggregate, we would say that the one versus 64 game in the boys side is going to be on aggregate. We would say that the one versus 64 game in the boys' side is going to be, on average, more competitive than one versus 64 on the girls' side, and it was more competitive than I think we were concerned at first saying is this going to work? And on the boys' side it's worked really well because there is so much parity, because there is so much parity and that's not to say that the top 10 teams don't stand out to some degree, but they stand out less on average on the boys' side than the girls' side. Would you guys agree with that?
Speaker 4:Yeah, even if you just looked, because I did this yesterday for something we're doing at the playoffs is I looked at all the past three national champions in each age group, girls and boys. Honestly, on the girls' side there's a lot of similarity names-wise. The pool of the teams that have won them is smaller. On the boys' side there's a lot more parity in the list. I don't know if that translates to anything. I would say it does To your point. I think there's probably more parity on the boys' side.
Speaker 2:So all these things go into the playoffs. And another question that comes up on these is why are we on the West Coast so much on the playoffs? Because it is a long trip for the East Coast. That's a fair question, because it's also expensive on the West Coast and one answer is we try and pick places that are destinations, and San Diego and Seattle, in the summer especially, are fantastic places that families can enjoy. But the other reality to that is the weather is just so much more predictable in those two markets than it is in almost anywhere else in the country.
Speaker 2:We did a playoff in 2021, during the sort of remnants of the COVID shutdowns, where we had to go to Florida for the playoffs in 2021. We got out of there a day before a hurricane hit. We've seen other platforms have post-season events along the East Coast which have just been pummeled with this typical East Coast or Southeast or Northeast summer thunderstorm that can just destroy. I mean you have lightning and rain. Even if you can play through rain, you can't play through lightning and people are sitting around and can't play games day after day.
Speaker 2:Some platforms do their summer playoffs in places like Texas, which Texas in late June, Texas in July is really really hot, or Arizona, If possible. We don't want to do that, so we pick locations that are destinations, so that there's some stuff off the field that families can enjoy, where the weather is generally temperate and positive. So we're looking at 70s, 80s and generally sun, where we're not worried too much about thunderstorms or hurricanes or lightning and that sort of stuff. And then the last piece at the Surf Cup Sports Complex and at 60 Acres in Seattle we have some of the nicest grass fields in the country. I mean, these places are carpets.
Speaker 4:To accommodate the number of teams that we want to include in the country. I mean, these places are carpets To accommodate the number of teams that we want to include in the playoffs, to get the location that we want, that we have a good idea that the weather's going to be good and there are things for people to do, because you're there for a little bit longer duration and you have the field quality and the number of fields that you need to play. I mean there's not that many, there's not that many of those that tick all those boxes around the country. No-transcript. We want to make sure it's a great experience on great fields in a great location where we can get the teams included and involved that we want to get involved, and that's the bottom line.
Speaker 2:Ashley, where are you heading for the postseason? Are you going to Seattle, san Diego or both?
Speaker 3:I go to both, which I'm very happy about. Lived in Seattle, got family in Orange County happy to go to Southern California. I'm living my best life here. In a week Nice got family in.
Speaker 3:Orange County happy to go to Southern California. I'm living my best life here in a week, I'm happy. I had to go to Baton Rouge in mid-June two years ago for a USYS event and that was the dumbest place on earth to hold a postseason event. It was 1-12. Couldn't play in the middle of the day. It was miserable. Players were pissed off, coaches were pissed off, parents were definitely pissed off. I mean to have to fork over a few more dollars to go to the west coast where you're 90 guaranteed cooler weather to play in like I think every parent on the planet would be like all day, instead of roasting in the south we understand that any of these events are expensive and it's and it's hard, and there's so much of what we've talked about has been these contrasting variables of how do you balance different things that compete for importance and quality fields.
Speaker 2:If you're looking to really reward the best teams and to have players be able to showcase themselves, you need to be on a good field.
Speaker 2:If you're not on a good field, it's hard for players to be accurately evaluated, and the worse the field then the more sort of up in the air the result can be independent of quality.
Speaker 2:The full-on worst outcome, in any event, is when weather makes it unplayable and that especially when people spend money in their summers and they go.
Speaker 2:That's probably the first factor to say we have to make sure that we are reducing as much as possible the risk that we're going to lose games or have to cut games. And then you look at the weather, and then you look at if we shrink the size of the events, which may open up opportunities for additional complexes and locations, well then you're taking away opportunity from teams that in other structures would have the ability to be seen and to have pathways individually and as a team. And then the last piece to this is the family experience piece. We've done events in other places that are less expensive from a hotel or a general cost of living, and what happens when we hold events? There is people, as much as people have challenges with cost and some of these bigger tourist destinations. When we go to a place that is not a tourist destination, then people complain that there's not a lot to do and they're spending a lot of time sitting in the hotel without things for their family to be experiencing.
Speaker 2:If you take a step back and look at all of our postseason structure more globally, we have a variety of different formats that we'll assess at the end of each year to determine what we really like and what we don't. So you look at the regional league and you have four regionalized events where people are generally able to drive to those events where there should hopefully be a good amount of regional college exposure for those. So you have that type of structure. Then you have the ECNL playoffs, which most people have to fly to, and those are separate by gender. So, as we said, the boys are in San Diego this year, the girls are in Seattle.
Speaker 2:In the regional league playoffs boys and girls are together at the same event, which adds kind of a different feel and excitement for it. And then when we go to the finals in Richmond in July, the girls regional league and the girls ECNL will be generally over the same three to five day window, and then the boys ECNL and boys ECNL regional league will be together over the same three to five day window, and then the boys ECNL and boys ECNL regional league will be together over the same three to five day window. So between regional league playoffs boys, girls. We have a variety of different formats single gender, multiple gender, single level, multiple level and we'll assess this at the end of the year and say okay, how did it go? Where should we make changes?
Speaker 4:You look behind the curtain. We are really always assessing this and trying to determine what the best structure is, the best locations are. That's an ongoing thing and I don't think anybody could ever say we don't think about this on a very regular basis. We're not sitting still saying, oh, it is what it is, this is just what we do and how we do it. I think we're always looking at it to say is there a better way to do it? Why? How? All those things always are part of our discussion. No question.
Speaker 3:I think that also goes into the events in of itself. Dallas we lost the field but it was a scramble in a lot of ways. But there was contingency plans and it was if this happens, where are we going? This happens, where are we going, what are we going to do? And I don't think a lot of people realize how much the events and ops teams do behind the scenes and prep of an event, like, yes, we evaluate afterwards of what could we done better, what should we not do next year, but in the event prep itself, it's what's a, b, c, d, all the way down almost to avoid catastrophes in so many ways, to take care of the membership, and I think that's kind of lost sometimes with the frustration of losing fields. Or whether what's the contingency plan? Why don't you guys have one where it's like you're in plan D? We've prepared for this. That's a good point.
Speaker 1:That is a good point and a good point in the show where we can take a break. When we return, christian Doug and Ashley dive into player ID and college recruiting, which are also a key part of the aforementioned ECNL playoffs at any level. That happens again after this message from Continental Tire. This is Dean Linke with a special message from my good friends at Continental Tire. Enter for a chance to win the Continental Tire ECNL sweepstakes. The first 2,500 entries will receive a custom mini scarf, plus one randomly selected fan will win an all-expense paid trip to the all-star game in columbus, ohio, july 15th through 18th. Visit continental tire ecnlvotigocom to enter now. Official rules.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to the new season, new format of Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast featuring Christian Lavers, doug Bracken and Ashley Willis. I'm Dean Linke. When we took a break, we had given you pretty much all the details on the ECNL playoffs which are essentially happening right now as you're listening to this podcast. Just as important during this time is player ID and college recruiting. I turn it back over to Christian Lavers to attack that subject in segment two.
Speaker 2:There's teams chasing championships and trophies at these events, but just as important is the player ID and the college recruiting that comes from these events, because these are gigantic opportunities for players to find opportunities to play at the next level in college and beyond. So let's talk a little bit about what that looks like sort of do's and don'ts of players on site in an event. What should they be thinking about, what should they not be thinking about, what ways in which players are, are seen and noticed good and bad and I'll turn it over, maybe ashley to you first to give your perspective on that yeah, I think there's such a fine line of how to handle these events.
Speaker 3:I think there's a misconception that one game is going to define you, one play, that sort of thing, where I think there's so much more that goes into it. You're not going to get recruited in one game, but you can definitely get yourself cross off somebody's list based off of one game and that's not. Oh, you had a bad play, you've had a bad moment, things like that. The professionals have bad plays, the professionals get stripped of the ball, they make an errant pass, things like that. But as far as character on the field, you know if somebody makes a bad pass, are you screaming at your teammate or are you like you're fine, drop in sort of thing? Are you hearing when you're on the bench? Are you doing all of the little details? Are you working back for the ball? Are you working off the ball, things like that.
Speaker 3:I think there's a misconception that it's only what I do while I have the ball, where it's so much more that goes into it. It's. Are you a good teammate? Do you work hard? Kind of body language in general are the big things that get you recruited or not recruited. In so many ways you can be the most talented player in the world, but if you're a punk, you're probably not going to get as many looks as you probably should, because a lot of people just don't want to deal with it.
Speaker 4:A player's preparation is centered around the things that they can control, which I think everybody would say that should be centered around the things that they can control. And you know you mentioned that with body language and what happens when you make a mistake. What's your reaction? You lose the ball. How do you work to get it back? All the little details, what is it that you do that makes you different? So what's your superpower, right, you know? Are you great in the air? Because if you're great in the air and we never see it in the game, then we don't.
Speaker 4:You know, you're not leaning into the thing that really makes you special Players. Think about preparation and preparing for an event like this, where you're going to be in the spotlight. What is the thing or the things that you do well and how do you, you know, leverage those things to help your team and control the things that you can control, because ultimately, you can't control whether or not the coach is going to want to recruit you or mark you off their list. Fact is, some people are going to like what you do and or, and some people aren't, and there are lots of variables that go into that for coaches. What you can do as a player is, you know, do the things that you do well and to your point, really be on top of all the things that you can control. That's how you put your best foot forward. Thinking about all the coaches that are sitting on the side or worrying about whether you're going to UCLA or North Carolina is probably not going to be productive.
Speaker 2:It's going to bring anxiety and whatever, which I think is going to happen kind of naturally anyway, and I'll add to that because I think you generally have to be okay at all the different skills of the game. I mean, that's a given. But if you're pretty good at everything, you don't stand out from any of the hundreds of players that are playing at the same time slot. You're playing the trick to standing out and it's almost like when you're a coach and you look down the bench and say, okay, I need to make a substitution to change the game.
Speaker 2:When you look at each player, every player brings to mind something that they bring to the game. When I look at player number one, this is a connector. This is somebody who's going to make passes and they're going to ensure we don't lose the ball and they're going to bring people into the game. I look at player number two and, to your point, Doug, they're great in the air and if this is a game that's a little transitional and out of control, they're going to come in and start winning more battles for us. I look at player number three and they're a dribbler and they're a take-on player who's going to unpredictably and dangerously capitalize on opportunities. And I say that because, as a player, you need to know what is your superpower or what is your distinguishing characteristic? That you do better than the other players on your team and ideally, you do better than as many people as possible, because being pretty good at everything is a baseline. You have to have one or two things that you stand out in.
Speaker 4:Way, way, way way back when I was coaching in college, one of the things I liked to do of course I had a list of players that I was watching and evaluating but I would like to do I would go try to just sit down at that game that I was supposed to be at, without really knowing which player was which, and say who is different? Who here does something different that you haven't seen before? What do you do that's unique? And how do you stand out above the hundreds and hundreds of players that are out there? And the reality is you probably don't have a ton of time to not bring that to the equation, because likely somebody sitting there could say I'm out, or someone could say, hey, I saw that, I'd like to come and see that again. You really don't have time to probably switch that on and off. You're not going to play well every single time you step on the field, but I do think you have to bring some consistency to what you do, to those superpowers or whatever those distinguishing qualities are, because a lot of times there probably isn't a ton of time from the evaluation perspective, so you being completely switched off for a half is probably not going to be great.
Speaker 2:Which to Ashley's point, which is why things like body language, the way you hold yourself, like body language, the way you hold yourself, your work rate those things are so obvious because, even if the game itself isn't your greatest, or the opportunity to do the things that you're really good at doesn't come as much as you would like, if your body language, the way you communicate and your work rate is all high and positive, that sends really good messages.
Speaker 2:That probably makes somebody say I'm going to come back and see this player again because maybe I didn't get to see everything I would like to see. But there's a lot of intangibles there that are positive. And on the flip side, if the game is not given an opportunity for you to do the things that you're really good at, you know, if your team is defending a lot, for example, and you're an attacker and you're just checked out and you're not even working hard in the defending phase, well now, not only do you not see what you're really good at, but people see the fact that you're not so supportive in the other phases of the game and that might be enough for people to say you know what, I don't need to come back because I know that I can't have players that are checked out if the game's not going the way that they want to go.
Speaker 4:The last thing I'll say to this point is you have to have a pretty short memory too, because this is a pretty mature concept to ask of a bunch of teenage kids.
Speaker 4:Right, because you know, as a teenager you know they're probably pretty wildly varying levels of maturity.
Speaker 4:But again, to not get so caught up emotionally in the process of recruiting, because you can see how heavy that can be if you get caught up in the emotion of it and you have a bad play or a bad half or a bad game and then you can't move on from it because you think your life is ruined and your opportunities to go play at college X is done.
Speaker 4:You have to have the ability to move forward and from the mistakes in a positive way, and that'll say as much about your character as anything stakes in a positive way, and that'll say as much about your character as anything. And primarily, when college coaches call me and talk to me about players, they ask a lot more about the character and the training ethic and the work ethic of players than they do about the playing ability, because I think they could probably see that on their own, but what they don't know, that you know, is the character. So to that point, having the character to move forward and not live so emotionally in the process, I think is a pretty important skill, although it does require a high level of maturity, I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think, doug, you just said something that is so underrated in the recruiting process and that is how much the college coaches talk to the club coaches.
Speaker 3:I think there's a wide majority of players that think, oh, I get recruited because they saw me at X, y and Z events, where it's the relationships that your club coaches have with those college coaches that often is doing the heavy lifting, it's all right.
Speaker 3:How are they in training? How are they as a kid? How are they in X, y and Z? And then I'm going to go watch them play kid, are they in x, y and z? And then I'm gonna go watch them play and not like, oh, I saw, I saw you play in seattle for 13 minutes and I decided that you're good enough to come see me. Like it's so much, so much more than that. You need to have good body language and be all these different things while you're playing at these events absolutely, but you also need to be doing that in your home environment, because a club coach is never going to hold you back, obviously, from if you're good enough to play at the next level, but they can help navigate those conversations of like, hey, they do this role really, really well for me.
Speaker 2:You should absolutely take a look at them yeah, I would just on that, because I agree with what you say.
Speaker 2:I would just for for a lot of parents.
Speaker 2:I would just add a cautionary comment of if a coach is telling you that their relationships with colleges or pros for that matter are going to open doors for you, that to me is a red flag, because nobody gets a bad player into an opportunity that they don't deserve, or a good player to an opportunity that's don't deserve, or a good player to an opportunity that's beyond them, based on their relationship and their friendship, because that's how coaches get fired.
Speaker 2:So, at the end of the day, I think what you're talking about is when, when players are, they're already interested because a coach has seen a level of play, then they want to know all the other stuff. Or if a coach is uncertain as to whether to be interested because maybe the player is right on that bubble of you know, there's 10 other ones like this player, so should I recruit this one or that one or which one is higher? Then I think those relationships can make a difference. You hear this, unfortunately, where people will say, oh, come to my club because I know all these coaches and therefore I will open doors with my magic wand and I think that that is like red flag number one in youth soccer recruiting.
Speaker 3:Absolutely agree. Run as fast as you can away from the coach. That's like I know coach in the country and if you play for me, you will go to X, y and Z school. Yeah, that's terrifying in so many ways.
Speaker 4:I think the stakes at the college level are a lot higher now than they've been as it relates to job security and things like that. So I think coaches are, you know, going to rely on their own eyes and their own evaluations. But if you are a coach who is honest and in their assessment of their players and aren't pushing players, you know in some way that that isn't true and accurate. Then I think what you can do as a coach is kind of help the college coach agreeing with what they're seeing. Normally. That's the conversation. I see this. Do you also see this? Yes, this is the same thing. I see Anybody who says, hey, if you come here, I can get you into X's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean you're basically confirming that what was seen on that day is not a complete aberration from the norm. This is a normal level of behavior and performance. But that also makes me go back, and I think this is interesting because I had this conversation with some people about 15 years ago. There was not so much focus on the individual recruitment path of players. I think there were players that focused on winning and performing and the recruitment was a byproduct of that. And I think actually it would help a lot of people to kind of shift that mentality back and look at recruiting as a byproduct of a good performance instead of looking at these events or their soccer career as this individually centric asset.
Speaker 2:That is the primary goal. And I say that for a couple of reasons because and Doug, you mentioned this earlier if you line up 10 college coaches watching a game, you're going to get 10 different opinions about who played well, who didn't. You know, obviously, the top, top, top kid who scores three goals and beats everybody one V one is everyone will acknowledge. But there's going to be a lot of varying opinions about what people saw on the, on the majority of players. And if you're a player who feels like you did your job, you played really well, you worked really hard and a coach doesn't like the performance that you put on, you probably don't want to go to that college, because if that's who you are and that's when you play really well, there are people that will find you and value that, and that's a recipe for a far better college career than making your own self assessment dependent upon somebody else's opinion.
Speaker 2:When you may not fit into the style of play there, you may not fit into the culture of that school, and so I just think there's a value of people saying if you focus on your process of do your job, perform your role, help your team succeed, all of those things lead to a positive outcome for you individually. And it's sort of if you put the team focus first, the individual stuff takes care of itself. Because I think if you flip it and you say I'm so focused on me and what I get out of this in terms of recruitment, you may actually negatively impact your performance individually, negatively impact your team performance, and it's sort of by flipping your priorities you actually hurt yourself.
Speaker 4:Particularly on the girl's side. In my experience there's so much wrapped into status. In my experience there's so much wrapped into status. There's so much of the college kind of recruiting piece that is wrapped in the status of it. It's almost like what, where can I say I'm going and how cool does that sound? You know, my saying to players is that that post you put on Instagram lasts for 24 hours and then nobody cares. So you should find the place that is good for you, which means you need to know what are the things that are important to me.
Speaker 4:That's probably could be a whole different podcast, but that when Christian said that, it just sparked that in my mind. Like, individually, what is it you're trying to do? Find, like individually, what is it you're trying to do? Are you trying to achieve status or are you trying to get to a place that's the right place for you, where you can have a great experience? And I think focusing on that is probably the way to do it. Again, a mature kind of way to look at things, which is probably easier said than done when outside the outside noise is really noisy because of the access to social media and all the things where everybody's life is kind of under a microscope at times.
Speaker 3:The status part, especially on the girl's side, is a pretty big point. You see it all the time, especially with the transfer portal now of I want to say that I'm going here but you probably a lot of the times are not fitting into the culture, the style of play. Where are you on that depth chart sort of thing. I think a lot of people just want to say I'm going to go play at this school because it's the school to go to. But I mean, for instance, for the longest time and still to this day, everyone wants to go to Carolina.
Speaker 3:On the women's side it's Carolina. You win everything, but they don't know that day in and day out at Carolina you are competing and your name is on a board and it is a grind there and it's a. It's a style of play that not everyone fits into. Where there's a school and I mean Arkansas you are the most direct style of play on the planet. So if you're not an athlete, why are you trying to go there?
Speaker 3:So it's just, it's about looking at where you fit in and where are you valued, because a school that might be your dream school might not value you the same way that you should be and it will always work out, always in your favor. I think every player will land where they're meant to be played. And to your point, Christian, earlier, earlier if you're good enough, you're. If you're good enough to be recruited, you will be recruited. There's no way you're going to talk yourself into being recruited by a school that you're not good enough to be into well, and, and that this is one moment in time and I see a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2:It's june 12th. June 15th is the first day on which players can be contacted when they, when they become uh, I think it's seniors right summer after the junior year.
Speaker 2:Whatever the recruiting is june 15th summer, yeah, summer after the sophomore year you know, and the reality is that there's going to be players that are contacted june 15th, in this moment in time, that are going to go on and have really successful careers at wherever they choose to go, because it's everything's worked out.
Speaker 2:And then there's going to be players that are contacted on june 15th, that transfer twice and don't have a very successful career, and there's going to be players that are not contacted on june 15th, who I would hate to think this, but think this is a big failure and that they have now they've lost all opportunity, when the reality is there's going to be players that are not contacted on June 15th that go on and have as or more successful careers than some of the players that make a decision day one when they have offers in front of them, because recruiting is a moment in time, and that's the other thing I think that helps remove some of the stress and pressure of it is that very, very few, if any, players are recruited off of one game at one event in this one moment.
Speaker 2:There is usually an assessment over time to see are they moving up and to the right in terms of the graph and am I seeing consistency, am I seeing growth? And then is that matched? Also then, by speaking to the people who know that player, am I seeing what they see? Am I seeing something reflective of daily commitment, daily performance, daily work, whatever it may be? And so I think, looking at recruiting, as hey, this is a snapshot of today, don't get overwhelmed in it, don't put all your focus in it and it's sort of that cliche process that everybody talks about, with Nick Saban and everyone else in the world who's successful talks about process, but players need to look at that from this perspective as well.
Speaker 4:You should have hopes and dreams, no question, you should absolutely have hopes and dreams. But if your primary motivation for playing anything is not love of the game and enjoyment of it and all the parts of it what being on a team, you know all the things that come along with it it probably doesn't end well. If the love of playing the game is not your motivation for playing it, at some point it starts to feel hard and makes you question whether it's worth it. So I would say to any player that that should be your motivation, and then the rest of the stuff will take care of itself, if that exists.
Speaker 3:I think what you just said is an awesome point. If you're not truly in love with playing soccer, there is a wide majority of schools that you shouldn't even have on your list. They're the bright, shiny, powerful schools that everyone and their actual mother wants them to go to. But if you're not in love with soccer and that is your true passion and you just think you want to go play because it's cool to say I'm a college athlete, don't go to a P4. That is a different level of grind than every other school on the planet that if you don't truly love it, you will hate your life in a matter of months. So be honest with yourself in this recruiting process. Do I want to go here because it's the shiny object or do I want to go here because they, they fit in a mold and so many things that I want? Style of play, what career growth, things like that?
Speaker 2:that also begs the point here, and I keep feeling like I should step back and say that.
Speaker 2:That also begs the point here. And I keep feeling like I should step back and say that players who are successful in the game long-term are players who like the game or players who love the game, and you don't have to want to be a college soccer player to be a good soccer player. You don't have to want to go to college to be a really effective and have a great experience in youth soccer. And again, I think if you put the goal too much in front of you of individual success and accolades, you add pressure to yourself. You may get some priorities wrong that ultimately hurt your long-term goal. At the end of the day, if you love soccer, you play soccer more, you work harder in soccer, you train on your own more, you do all the things that are required to be successful in soccer and then it ends up working out for you. And I think that's what we're all saying and I always say that the game is very unfair in the short term and it is very fair in the long term generally.
Speaker 4:Reminds me of my saying to the teams wherever you finish at the end of the season is where you deserve to finish. So if you're ninth, you're the ninth best team because you just played 16 games. That proved it right. So that's kind of along those lines, christian, although maybe not as it relates to recruiting.
Speaker 1:Okay, we knocked out details on the ECNL playoffs. We talked about player ID and recruiting. Totally Okay, we knocked out details on the ECNL playoffs. We talked about player ID and recruiting and, as we always do with the new format, we end with Doug Bracken's Bracken Brain Buster Again looking for a better name, if you got it. But when we return, Doug Bracken will pose a question to Ashley, Christian and even me, and we'll see if we come up with a good answer. That after again, this message from Continental Tire this is Dean Linke with a special message from my good friends at Continental Tire Enter for a chance to win the Continental Tire EC&L Sweepstakes.
Speaker 1:The first 2,500 entries will receive a custom mini scarf, plus one randomly selected fan will win an all-expense-paid trip to the All-Star Game in Columbus, Ohio, July 15-18. Visit continentaltireec&lvotigocom to enter now. Official rules apply. Welcome back to Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast, the new format, the new season featuring Christian Lavers, Doug Bracken and Ashley Willis, and always featuring an end with a question from Doug Bracken. That right now we're calling Bracken's Brain Buster, but we'll take any suggestions for a new name. So with that, I turn it over to Doug Bracken.
Speaker 4:I've learned over the last couple of podcasts that we're not going to go up with Dean first because he starts to feel insecure. So today Ashley's going to get it first. Did you get last week first?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I feel like I've gone twice now.
Speaker 4:Sorry. Okay, it's Christian. Christian will get the first one. I have to deal with Christian every day, multiple times a day, so I just try to keep everything kind of smooth and solid so there's no bumps in the road, in the spirit of the game of soccer and the playoffs that are going to happen and all that. And I will not ask you to predict the playoffs, but I will say one of the big events that's starting this week is the Euros, the European Championship, arguably one of the biggest competitions in the world that happens every four years. Christian, who do you have? Who is your rooting interest in the Euros and why?
Speaker 2:It's a good question. I will say the first thing I think about when I think about the Euros is the documentary. I think it was Tor. You guys remember that. It was the, I believe, the 88. 88 Dutch team. That is correct Narrated. I forget who the narrator was, but the lines like the apprentice salutes his mentor, which I think was van basten and gosh I forget who it was marco van basten yeah, if you haven't seen tor and you're a soccer fan, that is like mandatory viewing of an unbelievable soccer highlight story, so on.
Speaker 2:On that note, I guess I'll be rooting. I'll'll root for England, because it seems like a long suffering fan base, and for all of the transplants here who were going to play for man United before their knee got hurt and then they moved to the United States to coach soccer. We'll cheer for you.
Speaker 4:Mostly in Florida. Mostly in Florida.
Speaker 2:You have a lot on the East Coast We'll cheer for you, and whether you're England or the Great Britain or the UK I don't know how you decide which country you play for in the country to paraphrase Ted Lasso but we're going to root for you, a young team that has, I think, gotten a lot better over the last several years, and so let's do that.
Speaker 4:Unbelievable talents on that team. So okay now, ashley, because I have to make Dingo last for me. I'll pick you.
Speaker 3:Am I allowed to agree with Christian? Are we allowed to agree on this podcast?
Speaker 4:You can root for whoever you want.
Speaker 3:Oh, awesome. No, I want football to finally come home. I want England to win, especially after last year. I mean, that was just a brutal way to lose. I agree, I am on record agreeing with Christian Do me.
Speaker 4:Do you bring the youngsters all in at the end to take penalties, though? I mean, I guess only Gareth Southgate knows, because he's the one who has to make decisions.
Speaker 3:Pressure is a privilege, right, I mean pressure is a privilege Like let's go.
Speaker 4:We have two votes for the three Lions. Dean, what do you got the US? Us is not playing in the euros, dean?
Speaker 1:oh darn it. You know what you guys are gonna laugh, but I'm gonna go with my wife. She was born in spain and she's portuguese, so either one of those is where my heart is and that's what I'm going with.
Speaker 4:Dean always has two, not just one. You can't pick one. Is she born in portugal?
Speaker 1:she was born in madrid and, uh getting, actually she's close to getting her portuguese citizenship so then you got to go for portugal that's fair.
Speaker 4:That is fair portugal, it is and I believe this is ronaldo cristiano, ronaldo's fifth heroes it's like at this time he's like 55 right now right he yoked.
Speaker 3:He was in there when the first hero happened, sculptured. My sister-in-law is going to be so disappointed that I didn't say Portugal Like so disappointed. So, dean, thanks, thanks for that.
Speaker 1:You're welcome, and, ashley, I'm sorry that I'm always sappy with my wife. This is what it is.
Speaker 2:I know, dean, this is starting to be a routine here, always a wife Always.
Speaker 3:Just circle back to the wife Like stand on your own two feet, man. Who do you want?
Speaker 4:To Christian and Ashley's choice. There's a really interesting documentary about the lead up to the final at Wembley of the last Euros that England lost to Italy in penalties and it treads on the hooliganism and the craziness around English fans so you should take a look at that. It's on Netflix. I think Pretty interesting. I will also choose England First place. I went to watch stop talking about the curse and all the curses and all that kind of stuff. So I'm going to go with the three lines as well. Hopefully they'll go for it when things are tight. But three votes for England, one vote for Portugal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there you go. I think it was Portia Spain.
Speaker 1:Portia, spain, portia, spain, portia, spain. See, standing on my wife's two feet, which I'm proud of, makes me different than you three.
Speaker 2:So let's go. I don't think your wife wants you to stand on her feet, just so you know.
Speaker 1:Now there's a fat joke in there somewhere. All right, so there it is All right.
Speaker 4:So there it is. Euros start this week, so good luck to all teams in the Euros.
Speaker 1:So that's a wrap. Remember, if you have questions for Christian, doug or Ashley, submit them by going to info at the ECNL dot com. I want to thank all of the members of the ECNL. I want to thank my producer, colin Thrash, and for each and every one of them I'm Dean Linke. We'll see you in two weeks for another edition of Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast. Thank you for listening to Breaking the Line the ECNL podcast and remember, if you have a question that you want answered on Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast, email us at info at the ECNL dot com.