Breaking the Line: The ECNL Podcast
The Elite Clubs National League was founded in 2009 and continues to lead by daring to do things differently, embedded with grit, collaboration and tenacity – all things learned from the beautiful game. The ECNL protects and propels the integrity of the game and everyone it impacts by facilitating the perfect symmetry of excellence and humility, exclusivity and accessibility, freedom and community. We believe that challenging everyone to rise to their best creates game-changers that live well, long after cleats are unlaced. Born out of the belief in a better way. Continued in the ever-evolving pursuit of excellence.
Breaking the Line: The ECNL Podcast
Celebrating 100 Episodes: From ECNL to Olympic Glory and a look into Anson Dorrance's Influence | Ep.100
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Ever wonder how a podcast can sustain its passion and energy over 100 episodes? Join us as we celebrate this remarkable milestone on Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast. From navigating the challenges of the COVID-19 pandemic to highlighting the triumphs of ECNL alums in the US Women's National Team's recent Olympic gold win, this episode is a rich tapestry of soccer history and personal stories. Hosted by the ever-engaging Dean Linke, we journey through the legacy of legendary University of North Carolina coach Anson Dorrance and his lasting impact on the sport.
Welcome to Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast, a bi-weekly discussion featuring ECNL CEO and President Christian Labors, ecnl Vice President Doug Bracken and ECNL Partnership Activation and Alumni Relations Manager, ashley Willis. Hard to believe, but this podcast, right here, is the 100th episode of Breaking the Line, and it comes on the heels of the US women's national team winning the Olympic gold medal in France. It was an Olympics that featured 19 players that are ECNL alums and, with the women's college soccer season starting this week, perhaps the greatest college coach of all time, any sport, any gender, university of North Carolina's Anson Dorrance announced his retirement after winning the first ever Women's World Cup in 1991 for the USA and 22 national championships with the Tar Heels. So we celebrate 100 episodes of Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast in style, and we do that after this message from ECNL corporate partner Nike.
Speaker 2:Nike is a proud sponsor of ECNL. Nothing can stop what we can do together to bring positive change to our communities. You can't stop sport because hashtag. You can't stop our voices. Follow Nike on Instagram, facebook and Twitter.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast. My name is Dean Linke, so pleased to once again have Christian Lavers, doug Bracken and Ashley Willis I mentioned in the open. This is episode 100 of Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast, and for the opening comment on hitting the century mark I turn it over to Ashley Willis.
Speaker 3:Thanks, Dean. 100 episodes it's exciting I think I've only been on about the last 10, but no time like the present to be a part of the new wave of the podcast that I feel like it's just getting better and better every episode, the 100th is. I feel like we have a very exciting topic to kind of put a bow on the first 100. I don't know how you guys feel being around for the last 100 episodes 100 in the books Christian.
Speaker 4:I sort of feel like there was an age joke in that comment right there from Ashley Could have been.
Speaker 4:So. The first podcast September 16th 2020. So, if you think back when we started this, who knew how long it would last? I mean, we're still figuring out the best way to use this medium, but if you think of what was going on in September 2020, we were in sort of COVID recovery. There were certain states you could play soccer in. There were other states you couldn't play soccer in, so clubs were hosting games, and in the Midwest Indiana was a state you could play a lot of soccer. In Illinois, you couldn't play soccer in, so clubs were hosting games and in the Midwest Indiana was a state you could play a lot of soccer. In Illinois, you couldn't play soccer. In September, we were in the middle of that when this podcast came out which, to put it in perspective, that's a long time Feels like a long time ago.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Probably not as long as we think, but feels like a long time ago.
Speaker 4:And a shout out actually, if you look back to that, the amount of collaboration that went on between the clubs, which really is sort of inherent in the DNA of our league and something we've worked very hard to try and encourage and everybody in the league has been so great about.
Speaker 4:But the amount of collaboration to move games. Conferences changed their entire structures. Clubs hosted clubs from multiple states. We found neutral sites all over the place. People changed on a fly because the other thing that would happen is everybody had to get COVID tested on like Thursday, before they get in a car on Friday to go play a game and then games would get canceled at the 11th hour. The fact that the league and everybody was able to get through that period and we had a schedule and we had games and kids were able to get back. If you go back and listen to some of the stuff from Dr Watson talking about the impact of COVID on not having sports for kids, the fact that so much happened to make it possible in 2020 is a credit to all the people that were involved to try and get kids back playing sports.
Speaker 1:Doug Bracken your take.
Speaker 5:Yeah, just another kind of one of those challenges along the way. But it was a big one. Glad we got through it, glad we made it to 100 episodes. Obviously, we've recently changed the format because we just want to bring more thoughts about the league from us, because we're working in the league every day and sprinkling some guests when it's good. A hundred episodes, it's quite a milestone.
Speaker 4:Correct me if I'm wrong, Dean, but 2020, we had. I'm trying to think what was the basis of our relationship with you specifically, but because you called me and said, hey man, do you guys want to do a podcast? And we hadn't even thought about it, and I said, yeah, that sounds awesome. We haven't thought at all about it. What do you suggest? And then you kind of took the lead on getting this thing off the ground and have been the voice ever since and are doing more and more with us, Dean, but do you remember how we've? I don't even remember how we knew each other, how you knew enough to call me to even suggest a podcast at that point.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm going to be embarrassed and you're going to give me a hard time, but I think this was your wife's idea. Is that what you're going to? No, it's more about you. Every time I did have a discussion with you, my eyes were always wide open because you were so well read, so well spoken. You always had good takes, you always hit me with honesty, even when it was hard, and we kind of formed a relationship of you know.
Speaker 1:I felt like you respected kind of what I had done in the soccer world and I respected you. And then obviously I feel the same way now about Doug and Ashley and everybody at the ECNL. So we kind of formed that relationship, kind of talked about some of the things we'd done, that I had done. You had seen me at the convention. So I feel like the convention is when we had a little bit deeper talks and I think somebody told me I did over 520 podcasts for the association and really felt like in a good groove and I feel like you guys were growing at such a rapid pace that we needed to tell the story and that was kind of the impetus and I feel like people needed to hear the voices of the ECNL, and obviously we flushed it and changed it here and there, but that's how I remember it. Christian, does that resonate with you at all? Yeah, I mean first of all.
Speaker 4:I appreciate that was not an intentional segue, but I appreciate the kind comments, dean, which you are very gracious of, because we didn't have any formal relationship at that point and that's what you kind of just underlined. So the podcast was really the start of dean linkey with the ecnl, which has now turned into dean linkey, the voice of all the national selection games for the ecnl and for the regional league. Dean linkey calling our national championship games this year at multiple age groups. So kudos to you, dean, on having the vision to say hey, we need to come into the 21st century, I guess, and have a podcast, and hopefully what we'll see over the next year or so is that this thing will just keep growing. I hope we find topics that are of interest to people, that people want to hear about and talk about.
Speaker 5:Here's what I will say. There's only one voice that's been on all 100 podcasts, and that's Dean Linke, so thank you.
Speaker 1:Dean, I do want to add one more thanks, because doing the games and I've done, a lot of big games I've done, I mean I even did the Western Conference semifinals for Major League Soccer but doing the games the way you allow to, let me do them in between the players and the coaches and that type of thing, I hope you never change your mind on that, because it's invigorated me. I love it.
Speaker 4:I love the format and I hope we can keep doing that Absolutely. Our last sort of thank you Go back to Ashley for starting to take the lead on really taking this from a fledgling podcast to, hopefully, something that we hope is a discussion forum for topics of interest and of value to youth soccer not a griping platform, but a discussion and debate platform on different opinions and thoughts about where soccer can go and what is impacting it. So thank you, ashley, for taking the bull by the horns, to use a cliche.
Speaker 3:No problem, A little candor never hurt anyone when it comes to youth soccer. So happy to do it.
Speaker 1:What a segue. I mean you guys, it's a hundredth episode and I've never seen a busier week for soccer in this country.
Speaker 4:I'll let you guys roll with it, christian Doug and Ashley unbelievable surprise, I guess, to a lot of people, because you know they said this on all the broadcasts over and over. There was not a lot of expectation for the women's team and I think that was probably more to do with the turnover and a lot of new young players than anything else. I mean, obviously, the world cup wasn't great in terms of results, but, man, what this group did with the youngest roster, I think, since 2007, of players, you know we're going to talk a lot about them because a lot of these players played their youth soccer, their primary competition within the ECNL. But we say over and over and over, leagues don't develop players. We'll say that again here the clubs do, the players do, the coaches are working and the teammates that are working with them every day.
Speaker 4:We're really, really proud of the fact that a lot of these players played so many games in the ECNL, going back to U13, u14 for a lot of them. But we'll just talk through some of the achievement. But, dean, I'll kick it back to you first, because you were in Paris. I think you were at the semi, I don't know if you stayed for the final or not. What was the vibe like in Paris?
Speaker 1:It was incredible and I went to every US game except the final and was blown away by the quality of the team and the fact that Emma Hayes stuck with the players. You know, when they were in Marseille and Lyon the crowds weren't quite as big as they were when they were in Paris which is going to happen but they certainly earned it and it was an honor to be there and be that close to them. I just wish I could have stayed for the final.
Speaker 5:What you learn in this whole thing is that when something negative happens, like the World Cup and negative is, the margins at that level are so razor thin and everybody like panics, but there is always a natural kind of changing of the guard that needs to happen. I think that's the reality in every sport, where maybe you get a little bit too old and it's time to turn the page and refresh the squad and give young players more responsibility, more belief, take that baton and move it forward. So I don't know if the US team was ever kind of, you know, on a downward trajectory, so to speak. I think it was maybe time to turn the page. And obviously Emma Hayes, you know, really connected with the players and the team. And the rest obviously is history their fifth gold medal. When you think about four World Cups and five gold medals, that's unprecedented, obviously so fun to watch how they did it as well. I don't know, christian, what did you think about as you watched the games? How did you feel about their kind of journey?
Speaker 4:Because they started kind of with a bang right, they did really well in group stage and then it got a little tighter, tighter yeah, as you would expect, as you go on in the tournament, but I'll maybe I'll back up and give a shout back out to these players and and the clubs that they came from and just give some data here. So ecno alums and we'll go through these players and the clubs they came from were there were 14 players with the us three, three for Nigeria and one for Colombia, so a good number of players in a couple of different countries. But if we speak specifically about the US alums, so Corbin Albert played for Eclipse in the Midwest Conference. Croy Bethune, concord, fire, concord I think the number one club in terms of us olympians. Jane campbell, also from conquered fire. Sam coffee, match fit academy. Tierna davidson, dianza. Emily fox, fc virginia, who was in the cnl during her youth career. Naomi germa, dianza as well. Hal hirschfeld, conquered fire, their third player in the olympic.
Speaker 4:Casey Murphy from PDA. Jenna Niswonger from Slammers, trinity Rodman, socal Blues. Jaden Shaw, who played with FC Dallas and a little bit with Solar, I think. Sophia Smith, real Colorado, who had also Mallory Swanson. So if you look at those players, that's 12 different ECNL clubs, I think, seven different conferences, so all over the country. It's an incredible accomplishment to make an Olympic team. It's another step to be a star on an Olympic team, and then it's another step to win a gold medal and be a star on an Olympic team. So kudos to all of those players, all of the clubs, all of the people. I mean I'm not a huge proponent of the or believer in the. It takes a community to do everything, but it certainly takes a community to create a good soccer environment year after year in many different cities with many different clubs. So kudos to everybody involved with that.
Speaker 5:Big shout out to. I think they landed on being called Triple Espresso as I watched the broadcast. So Mal Swanson, sophia Smith and Trinity Rodman scored 10 goals in the competition, which I think is all but two of the goals that the US scored throughout the competition. So found some young, potent attackers there and that's what you need at that level. But those guys were fun to watch and Emma Hayes really stuck with them throughout. That's a lot of games in a short period of time to play as well, and credit to those guys for getting the ball in the back of the net, which you would argue at the World Cup probably was. Our issue was we couldn't put it in the net. Well, yeah, and you look, mal Swanson was unable to play at the World Cup probably was.
Speaker 4:Our issue was we couldn't put it in the net. Well, yeah, and you look, mal Swanson was unable to play in the World Cup, as well as Katarina Makaria, who had to be pulled off of this roster as well late, I believe. So there was some serious attacking disruption in the World Cup. Those players available here obviously it looked like a very confident team from day one played very confidently, ash. What do you think?
Speaker 3:Oh, I loved it. I thought it was our best performance in a couple of years, not to take away from what they had done previously, because with the women's national team it's such a as you said, doug, it's such a fine line of excellence that you're like any sort of a drop off. We're like, oh gosh, they're terrible. Where it's like putting it into perspective with other countries, they're not. So to see them back on top was just so much fun. And, like you said, those three up up top, that was just stupid. At one point it was like a cheat code. It really was, as a fan, and then, you know, as a former player and current coach, just a completely different perspective. But I mean, if that's any indication of what Emma Hayes is about to do with this team, then we're back. We are back.
Speaker 1:It's so much bigger than those three and they're so exciting and so much fun to watch and they're so marketable. But you know Alyssa Nair we barely even know who she is, but all we know is she is just a rock and always gets it done is incredible. And then Crystal Dunn for me is one of the most incredible soccer players this country has ever produced. Doesn't get the publicity. Emily Fox stood out and then, with the Big Ten Network, I saw Sam Coffey come from Boston College. I called her the Michael Jordan of that team that also included Frankie Talaferri and Allie Schlegel and she solidified in the rock. We know what Lindsey Horan met. And then you just saw Girma basically step up and say, hey, I'm the best defender in the world. So the triple espresso is incredible. They're awesome. I watch them all day long, but it takes the entire team and all of those players did great things.
Speaker 4:You're right, dean, 100%, and you know one of the strengths of our country is the depth of the player pool and I think you know post-World Cup there were a lot of people freaking out about where's the women's team.
Speaker 4:You know the rest of the world's catching up and whatever narrative there is out there, and the reality is that the rest of the world is getting better because they're investing in women's soccer in a way that they've never done before and the sport's growing and that's that's going to happen. I doubt anybody would have sit here and said oh wait, you just see the women are going to win gold. But I think a lot of people who knew the player pipeline knew that there were a lot of young players that were really, really talented, that were just about to come into the system. Now, you can never predict how that's going to go, but I think it is a credit to the depth of the competition and talent in this country. The team looked dynamic and vibrant. I mean I was struck by. They. Looked very confident. The speed of play was significantly higher, I thought in every game, than it was even a couple of years ago.
Speaker 5:We showed a lot more patience on the ball as well, really a lot more patience. Where I think in the past couple of years you'd see us get a little bit frustrated when we couldn't break people down and we would start to force and then things would break down. I thought there was a lot more patience, along with that dynamic play that you talked about, and I thought that was a real staple how we held the ball and kept the ball at times and just kind of let the game develop and let the play develop, as opposed to that impatience that creates you to kind of force something that may not, may not, have been on the back line to your point, dean in the back line with naomi german, amelie fox, tierna davidson, crystal dunn, very organized.
Speaker 4:I think they had some touchy moments in the beginning of the final which were probably nerves as much as anything else, but a really really well organized back four. I thought to your point, dean. I thought Alyssa Neher looked better than she ever has. She looked more relaxed and confident in many ways with the ball at her feet. So it just looked like the group was confident.
Speaker 4:The midfield well, you can say this, I guess, in all phases, but the midfield was dramatically changed with the introduction of Sam Coffey Corbin Albert changed with the introduction of Sam Coffey Corbin Albert.
Speaker 4:They just added a very dynamic, very smart ability to just connect and hold and play through midfield. That I think a lot of people have been asking about and looking for and I thought the team did have the ability to be patient but also to get in quick. That's the combination that makes you so difficult to play against. I mean, even if you look to a different degree you can look at the men's world cup four years ago you look at Spain and Germany that go out right, passing the ball 700 times but never getting a goal very quickly and then very differently in this world cup. And I think if you look at our women's team, they could play more patiently, or at least try to play more patiently when it was on, but you did, to your point, actually have a cheat code of, if it was on, to go quick and go fast and get behind. They were able to do so.
Speaker 5:One stat that Ashley threw in, threw at us which I thought this is so cool is Jenna Niswonger, who was kind of a sub that came on and really helped close the games. She is a player that played for Slammer. She won two ECNL national championships. She won an NCAA national championship with Florida State in 2021. And she won the NWSL championship with Gotham in 2023. And now she just won a gold medal Decent you know, decent.
Speaker 5:That was a a cool, really cool stat among all those that that she's been experienced that kind of success from a team perspective.
Speaker 5:Just to just to kind of highlight what christian said, I think what you realize is that the margins are thin. It's very, very hard, very hard to win at that level. You want to be the one of the teams or the countries that everybody is always going to say, hey, they're going to be part of the conversation. Now, whether it ends up happening or not, there can be a lot of things involved in that, but I think you cannot argue that the US is part of that conversation with the very few countries in the world that can win consistently at that level and with the youth in the team. And then I think the other thing you're going to see and Christian, I'd be interested to hear you guys and Ashley, your thoughts with a lot of these kids now going as 16-, 17-year-olds directly to the pro environment in the NWSL, what effect that will have on their development and how they, those players, some of those players, will play a part in this team in the future. It feels like we're going to be in the conversation for for the foreseeable future.
Speaker 3:Not to throw another stat at you guys, but I think one of the other coolest stats that I saw coming out of the Olympics was, you know, we were talking about how, oh how, have we had a drop off with the world cup? Did people think we were going to be in the conversation? Anytime we've lost the world cup, we've immediately followed with an Olympic goal every single time. That is a ridiculous stat.
Speaker 5:Love it, interesting yeah.
Speaker 3:It's gone back to back with winning the World Cup and then the Olympics, but people go Olympics and World Cup, so it's interesting.
Speaker 5:What you're saying is, if we win the World Cup, we would be the first to go in World Cup. No, no.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 5:People go Olympics.
Speaker 3:World Cup, but not World Cup, then Olympics back-to-back yeah.
Speaker 5:Got it. You're really thrilled. This is like a bracken brain buster.
Speaker 3:I'm just out here educating you guys, keeping you on your toes.
Speaker 5:Yeah, thank you, appreciate that.
Speaker 1:How do you guys feel about the way Emma embraced the role of representing the USA as a woman from England, like she made our country her country, and I feel like she meant it.
Speaker 5:Yeah, she is outwardly said that she was made. She was born in England but she was made in the US. She was incredibly emotional afterwards and I think that just shows you what it meant to her to and she said it what it meant to her to lead the United States to this success. It just shows that she's really rooted here in the US.
Speaker 3:I think people forget that she was here and then she went back to London. She was here coaching the NWSL didn't have the most success.
Speaker 1:WPS. Wps then the.
Speaker 3:NWSL, then went home to London Wasn't even coaching. Then got back in, made Chelsea into the monster that they are today and came back and has kind of mic dropped into the US again. So I mean.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it's a pretty good debut, pretty good debut.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think you could from the outside, because you never know what goes on. You know on the inside, from the outside, what, clearly, with a largely unchanged roster outside of some injury issues, which there is a lot of validity to the understanding and the comfort level of players together and I think that's true at every level. One of the biggest differences typically between a national team and a club team is the player's comfort level playing with each other, and that comes with time. So again you can look at other World Cup teams and again I'll go to the men's side when Spain wins the World Cup, but it's largely players that are playing at Barcelona or Real Madrid. There is a general level of comfort that a lot of those teams have with each other.
Speaker 4:But with our national team that comfort you could see it almost getting stronger game by game as they get more and more comfortable with each other and what to expect from each other. They had a clearly defined way that they wanted to play but there wasn't a lot of disruption and change of new people coming in and then what typically happens is miscommunication of I thought you wanted that ball and I made this run. You didn't see much of that in the tournament and I think there were people that said, hey, you need to make change and that's always that's one of the things you get paid. That's why you get paid a million bucks is when do I make the change and when do I leave the team that is on the field? Because, even fatigued, a team that is on the same page and understands each other and reads each other's body language well and knows what the other players are going to do, is going to be generally more effective than a fresher team.
Speaker 5:But who doesn't know each other's movements desires understanding as well yeah, that's a great point and, given the youth of the team, I think this can really be a springboard for them moving forward, and so it'll be exciting to see kind of how they go moving forward. Obviously, we're into that kind of next three years is pretty quiet as we just wait for the World Cup in 27 to happen. That'll give Emma and those players more time develop, more time for new players, and it seems like it was going to have a, you know, not going to be afraid to put some new youthful players into the team, uh, when, when warranted. So I'm excited to see where the team goes and but a huge moment of pride just to watch us, you know, and kind of put to bed that criticism that they faced from the World Cup in Australia.
Speaker 4:And to your point, one of the changes I think you can look at, or one of the areas to look at in the future, is with these young players that are youth players jumping into the pros, with now this sort of changing of the roster because again, it was the youngest roster for the US since 07, I believe changing of the roster because again, it was the youngest roster for the US since 07, I believe you're going to have more young players coming at an earlier time in their development to push the current pool, the years of potentially, a player being in the national team for a decade and having hundreds and hundreds of caps and having multiple of those players.
Speaker 4:I don't think you're going to see that very often. Moving forward, You're going to see players that are in and have great couple of years with the national team and then there's going to be people that are coming up that are going to push and challenge. Now, whether they take spots and how that evolves, I think is what we'll be looking for. But my sense is that this pool is not going to get smaller. It's going to get bigger each year as more and more kids are coming through.
Speaker 5:Yeah, A couple other players just to note. We had three players that played for Nigeria. Tony Payne was the one. She started every game for Nigeria and played 247 minutes in their midfield. That was also great to see that we're getting even outside the US team. And then we said Concord Fire had the most players in the US team, but I will say Real Colorado also had a player for Canada and Janine Becky, who also played for Real Colorado, as did Mal Swanson and Sophia Smith, and incidentally, Janine Becky won a gold medal in Tokyo. So now Real Colorado has three Olympic gold medalists that played in this current Olympics. So that was another cool kind of stat.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and just if you go back, I remember I was at the first. I believe it was the first or second U14 national team camp that Mallory Pugh at the time was at. She was such a dynamic youth player, was by far and away the best player in that camp at that time and she went through some ups and downs in her career, was perhaps at her best and then got hurt right before the World Cup. And now to see her come all the way back because at the time when she was 14, people see her come all the way back because at the time when she was 14, people unfortunately media or or pundits all say things like oh, this is the next mia ham or this is the next whoever, but that was being said about her at age 14. And to see what she's done now unbelievable. Probably many don't know this, but janine becky and I was at a u18 national team camp where Janine Becky was playing for the US. So she was actually in the United States national team pool at under 18.
Speaker 4:And then somewhere along that, because she's a fantastic player, yeah she is and somewhere along that line, ended up playing for Canada for one reason or another. It's really cool to see you know, now that you've got these players that peak, that they pop up first as youth players. Some have really smooth, clear trajectories. That's probably the exception rather than the norm. But then you have players like Mal, who start at this huge potential, go through some rough times and are on top of the mountain. Players like Janine Becky, who start in the US but then won a gold medal for Canada. I think we're going to have more and more of this type of story of players from more and more places going to more and more places with unique journeys.
Speaker 5:Quick shout out to the men's Olympic team. Obviously different format there because it's under 23. They advanced, uh, to the quarter final. Great for them to get there. You know, rough start against france. I think we talked about that maybe in the last podcast, but then they came back two strong performances in the group and then just based a morocco team that was on a mission. That's a huge, huge, I think, for our on the men's side development, for those guys to experience that and be part of that. We had guys on that team from five different ECNL member clubs. Those guys didn't necessarily play in the ECNL, but just guys that were on clubs that are members of the ECNL. So shout out to them. That was fun. Also fun to watch. I missed zero minutes of any soccer game that involved the US during the Olympics, so that was a cool thing to follow.
Speaker 4:If I look again, because I've said before, leagues don't develop players. What leagues do is provide a platform. They provide competition, they provide opportunity. If we say, what is the ECNL, why do we talk about some of this stuff and refer to these players like this? It's because when you identify really good clubs who do a good job like I believe we have and then you give them the opportunity to be tested against each other, to learn from each other at a coaching level, at a at a DOC level, at an operational level, and then obviously the players who are matching up best on best, a lot more often the, the girls.
Speaker 4:Um, ecnl goes back all the way to 2009.
Speaker 4:Boys didn't start till 2016. But I think that sort of unleashing of the American youth system and there's a lot of people who criticize the American youth system for one reason or another and pay to play and all this other stuff we can argue about that all day on a different topic but one of the really powerful things about what I believe we are proud of here in the league and I would hope that every DOC in the league would say this is just sort of the coming together of all these different clubs to try and do better, to try and create a better environment, to try and make more competitive and higher level players, teams and competition environments is really cool and you know, the men haven't been. They haven't been in the Olympics in 20 something years. So hopefully this is the start of many, many more years of being in the Olympics and where we will start to see more and more youth clubs saying hey, there's a player that came through that youth club that has now come out into that level of competition.
Speaker 1:What a great start to the 100th episode of Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast, as we salute the US women's national team winning the gold medal and, as you just heard, the men's team getting out of group play as well. When we return, college soccer begins this week and it includes the retirement of the legendary Anson Dorrance. We'll cover that after this message from an ECNL corporate partner.
Speaker 2:Soccercom is proud to partner with the ECNL to support the continued development of soccer in the US at the highest levels. We've been delivering quality soccer equipment and apparel to players, fans and coaches since 1984. Living and breathing the beautiful game ourselves. Our goal at Soccercom is to inspire you to play better, cheer louder and have more fun. Visit Soccercom today to check out our unmatched selection of gear, expert advice and stories of greatness at every level of the game.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to episode 100 of Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast. As we kick it back to the ECNL president and CEO, christian Labors.
Speaker 4:The next biggest news in soccer after the gold medal, unexpectedly was the retirement of Anson Dorrance. Anson probably the godfather of soccer, of women's soccer at least in this country and you'd be hard pressed to find anybody who has done more for women's soccer at almost every level than Anson Came out of the blue to some degree. I mean there's been rumors over the last couple of years that he may be looking to step down at some point, but that was just announced on Sunday afternoon. I mean it hit us by surprise. Dean, you're in Chapel Hill. I doubt you had a heads up on that.
Speaker 1:No, although I did see Anson a lot at the ECNL events, which is great. You know, when you've got Anson and all the great coaches I mean 500 coaches at some of your events and I could tell that he was getting a little tired, I mean, I do got a little story to tell that I think is relevant. You know, I was a student in Ohio. I was a football, basketball and baseball player. I didn't play soccer. I'm embarrassed to say my high school still doesn't have soccer.
Speaker 1:I got an internship with US Soccer and my first camp was in 89 in Santa Barbara and it was with Anson Dorrance and he had already basically had the entire team that would win that World Cup in 91, where I would be the junior press officer. So my first time on a soccer field period was with Michelle Akers, karen Jennings, april Heinrichs, mia Hamm, shannon Higgins, julie Foudy, christine Lilly, wendy Gebauer, carla Overbeck, mary Harvey, linda Hamilton, lori Henry, brandi Chastain and all of those players made the team and that was my first exposure, my first meeting. Anson gets up and talks about the next practice. They're going to turn their intestines into diamonds and I was like I don't know who talks like that, but I want to play and he really shaped my-.
Speaker 4:You tried to jump in, Dean, didn't you? You tried to jump in on the fitness. I did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he shaped my love for soccer and we would go on to do things together, including the vision of a champion podcast. When the WSA started, they played their games at what is now Dorrance Field. He was my broadcast partner, he's a friend, he's on speed dial for me. I texted him immediately and even before we were recording this, I listened to his entire press conference, where you know he told stories that he's told a million times, but every time, anytime he talks, he really is like EF Hutton. So you know I didn't really answer your question. Am I surprised? No, I'm not surprised. I mean, he basically admitted that he's not a man of glitz and glamour. He never really had a contract until Bubba Cunningham got there.
Speaker 1:He went on a vacation this year for the first time ever with his family and his grandkids. He liked it, he wants to do more of it and that's what he's going to do. And the crazy thing is he said you know what? I'm an introvert. I got in, I told the team I'm done and I left and hit the pickleball court. He was supposed to stay and do all these little interviews and social media stuff. And he joked at the press conference and said Bubba, you know, actually I apologize, I forgot that. You asked me to do that, but I've already checked out. No more emails, no more phone calls. I'm going to sleep nine hours every day, and he was just ready. And if anybody deserves to be ready, anson dorrance deserves to be ready. The greatest college coach any sport, any gender, of all time. I say that and the stats back it up 45 seasons, 21 national titles.
Speaker 1:I mean that's enough, said right and that's 22, because that the first one was when it was AIAW yeah right, yeah Right. And they were in six other national championship games. So you think about that 22, six other, you know, 28 out of 45. I mean, just ridiculous numbers 47 years 47 years.
Speaker 4:As a UNC head coach.
Speaker 1:Okay, 22 chances Head coach men, though, but only 45 as the women's, 45 with the women.
Speaker 5:Yeah, sorry, yeah, I was going to say he started with the men as well. Right, that's how he started. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's Actually it's 44.
Speaker 1:This would have been his 45th.
Speaker 5:So I mean unbelievable what he's done, and and I mean and he's a world cup winner, right Cause they won the world world cup, and in 1991. Yeah, he.
Speaker 1:I was the junior press officer of that team and what an honor, you know. I mean they didn't have the celebration like these teams have it now. But those players, you know the 99 team gets all the credit, but really I always say the 91 team could beat the 99 team.
Speaker 4:Here we go. Let's, let's tell us some, some Anson ECNL stories that people might not know, but back back in 2009. So this was before the ECNL was started. There was a group of clubs, 24 clubs, maybe 32, something like that in what was the Red Bull League.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it was 32 clubs.
Speaker 4:A handful of games in the year that these clubs would get together. Academy had started in 2007. And there was a lot of sense from those of us you know coaching on both sides boys and girls that what the DA was trying to do in terms of getting better games between clubs more often, that the same thing needed to happen on the girls' side. And the reality was at that time US soccer did not have any interest in doing anything on the youth side, like on the girls' side, like they were on the boys' side. The Red Bull League was sort of a starting point of what should happen here and we were at the coaches' convention in St Louis, missouri, and a group of club coaches was sitting around talking about this and Anson walked in and Anson gave a big. I think I was sitting next to you.
Speaker 5:Yeah, we were sitting next to each other. It was the first time we ever met.
Speaker 4:Yeah, didn't really know each other at the time and Anson walked in.
Speaker 5:Weren't you writing a law brief? I was, I was, I was actually doing some legal work on the side because it was a long meeting. Yes.
Speaker 4:But Anson walked in, I stopped, I stopped doing legal work. At that point he basically encouraged everybody in the room and said, hey, us Soccer isn't going to do this, you guys need to do this and you guys need to take charge of this environment and sort of gave what I would imagine would be, you know, an Anson locker room sort of hey, everybody should go and do this and, if we can help you, no-transcript people outside of youth soccer cared at all about youth soccer.
Speaker 5:Or probably even really knew what we were doing.
Speaker 4:Right, right. And not only was he, did he take the time to come into that room and say you guys need to do something. Then he took the time to call and say, hey, let me know if you need anything. And every now and then we had conversations about a variety of things. 2017, anson was one of, if not the most vocal supporters of the ECNL at that time in saying that, hey, the ECNL and the clubs that make it up have done a lot of good things in youth soccer. And he was there when there were not a lot of people that believed that the league was going to last much longer, because the conventional wisdom was that the development academy is just going to take over everything.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 4:Anson was a very, very public supporter of our league, of the clubs who chose to stay in our league and not go to the development academy, and of the need for US soccer at that time to take a more collaborative approach, respectful maybe even approach, with clubs and in the youth space. And so he put his money where his mouth is. He was a big supporter of our league. He helped us in ways that only Anson can in terms of support, and there's been there's been other people that have helped us along the way, but he certainly was one of the biggest.
Speaker 5:And when you get his support it galvanizes you as someone who is leading, trying to lead the league or trying to work to keep the league. You know, building and growing the support of a guy like Anson is very galvanizing to, I think, to us, it was to us, we've talked about it a number of times. I mean college soccer and soccer in general is, you know, losing, I guess, a giant, larger than life I would say, figure. He will certainly be missed in the game, although he has every right and deserves every vacation he gets to take from here on out and every pickleball game he gets to play. But I mean, I think, from us you just say thank you for your support and you know we wish you you know the best as you go and do the things you should do and have a great time doing it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and Ashley, I'll ask you for if you have any and I'm sure you have Anson memories, memories, even if they're just in dreams of carolina blue. But you know, I'll finish with 2017 18. Anson facilitated the infamous debate between the girls development academy and the ecnl at the uh united soccer coaches convention, which that was a.
Speaker 4:that was a moment in time in time that he thought it was important to have dialogue and he single-handedly made that happen by saying I'm not going to let this continue without some discussion. I think only Anson could have made that happen outside of the fair.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was definitely a great moment in time, ashley. What are your being a player and all that? I'm sure you I don't know maybe you dreamed of going to Carolina at some point.
Speaker 3:I don't think any female player growing up in the US can honestly say they didn't think about going to Carolina at one point. I would be pretty hard pressed to find one that really can honestly say that. So of course always wanted to go to Carolina the little bit. I was living in Cary, north Carolina, playing for Jay Howell over at Castle Anson had come out to training or two to see the local talents. I mean to have a giant like that step away from the game. One amazing career, so thankful for everything he did for the women's game. But yeah, I think it's well-deserved. One of my closest friends played at Carolina, won a national championship there. I've been lucky to go back and visit a few times to Chapel Hill with her and meet him and meet Damon and the whole staff and everything.
Speaker 3:And Anton has this really amazing way of making you feel like seeing when he doesn't know you, which I think is really cool because I mean he's a larger-than-life figure, he's an eccentric guy, to say the least, but I think he just is really really intent when he's talking to you, which I just thought was so cool because he's Anson Dorrance, he doesn't really need to give you the time of day, which I just thought was so cool because he's he's Anson Dorrance.
Speaker 3:Like he doesn't really need to give you the time of day If you're a youth player, you're a coach, you're a old alumni's friend Like he could just be like oh hey, nice to meet you, and carry about on your day. But he has a really cool ability to be like hey, so and just kind of, you know, go through and talk to you and yeah, I think I think he's awesome, not surprised in the fact that this day is finally here, but kind of shook to their core in some ways of like how am I going to go back to Chapel Hill and not go see Anson? I mean, he'll be around His name's on the frickin' stadium. But I think that just speaks volumes to kind of what he did for the game that he affected so many alumni and those who didn't even play for him. You know, I think I saw a lot of people on on social media kind of thanks to him and they didn't even play for him, they played against him. I think that just kind of speaks volumes to the guy in general.
Speaker 4:He was involved in so many things. I mean, I took the United Soccer Coaches Premier coaching diploma and he was one of the instructors there. That's when I really first got to hear from him directly. He was a fantastic speaker and a coach educator. And then not many probably know this either Anson was the first guy who brought Raymond Verheyen into the US and he actually called me up when he brought Raymond in to do this education those of you who know Raymond in World Football Academy, he's a very, very smart Dutch coach educator and he called me up and said, hey, I'm having this guy come in and talk to me about periodization. And said you should come down to carolina and sit in and I did and learned a ton and then actually the ecnl. Then we we brought raymond ferregan into a couple of courses to teach people and you know, then he started sent some coaches overseas to work with him.
Speaker 4:Yep, yep. So you know he was. He was always a guy that I think wanted people to be. He was. He was a community builder in many ways. I mean, he has his reputation of competition and the competitive cauldron and all that stuff of ranking players and pushing the competitive environment to its limit. But I think, from a from a broader perspective, he was a builder of the sport and he wanted the sport to be better, and one of the last conversations I had with him several years ago was his, I think. Next dream and Dean, you might know more of this was about how to make women's soccer a revenue sport and how to use women's soccer at the collegiate level to become a sport that is revenue positive across the landscape, not revenue negative.
Speaker 1:Amazing. You mentioned that. His last words in what was a long press conference is funny. They tried to tell Anson to just do sound bites. But Anson doesn't do sound bites. Anson does stories right One of the best storytellers of all time. But his last message was you know, they built this 4,000 seat stadium. He eventually wants them to fill the end zone, so there's 6,000 seats. That's where he thinks the game is going and it's about exactly that attendance and revenue and riding that wave, christian. So he'll still be a part of that, even though he's stepped aside, and you nailed it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's funny. I'll tell one more story that and I forget I might've listened to this in the coaching course, but he told a story of how, when he was a kid, I think, he went to a private school in Europe, if I say that correctly and one of his teachers and he used this as an analogy for soccer and it's obviously stuck with me because I'm retelling it but one of his teachers says hey, every day I'm going to give you homework, you turn it in, and if you don't turn it in, you're going to lose. And I think it was like one tenth of one percent of your grade for any day that you don't turn in homework. So if, at the end of the semester, you could get a hundred percent and you didn't do homework for one day, your max percentage was ninety nine point nine. If you don't do homework for 10 days, your max percentage is ninety nine. So, whatever it is, it was a percent off, whatever your grade was going to be. And the point was I'm not telling you that you, that you're going to fail if you don't do homework. You can't, you have to do homework. I'm telling you that if you're going to choose to do something besides homework and not do homework for that day. Make sure that it's worth it. Make sure that the trade off is is worth it.
Speaker 4:And he talked about how, that you know. And his first reaction was how I'm not going to do anything and I'm going to see what this teacher does. And you know the teacher, if you didn't do the homework, you didn't do the homework, didn't make a big deal about it. So today you make your life choices and he sort of used that as the the example of whatever your choices, just make sure I guess my phrase the juice is worth the squeeze. If you're going to do this instead of that, make sure it's worthy, because there's a consequence. And he told that story and he would tell it way better To your point, dean, great storytelling, but it was a really interesting thing about just the importance of every day putting in the work.
Speaker 4:Every day putting in the work and one day not putting in the work isn't going to change the world. But a month of not putting in the work isn't going to change the world. But a month of not putting in the work is going to be seen a year of not putting in the work, and you might as well not even talk about it anymore, but it was a really you know cause, as you know, he's a believer in constant improvement. The guy's always looking for the next thing, the next way to be better. And that was a, I thought, a great example of that.
Speaker 1:He's definitely a believer in winning too. I mean, he talked about the fact he started at Rainbow Soccer, where they allegedly didn't keep score and didn't recruit. He recruited and he kept score and he abolished everybody.
Speaker 4:Hey, there may be more Anson stories. Maybe we can get him to join us, dean, maybe on one of these podcasts, when we get him away from the pickleball court or the ice hockey rink and get him to come on here and tell some stories.
Speaker 1:He'll definitely join us, because he did make a joke. He said nobody can ever say I'm not available. I did a podcast two months ago with two 12-year-olds, so I'm always available was one of his best lines today. I think he just called us 12-year-olds.
Speaker 5:Sometimes we act like it, I guess.
Speaker 4:So hey, let's see if we can do that. He'd be a fun guest and he could tell a lot of stories, and then they could not hear from us as much. Thank you to Anson for supporting the ECNL. Thank you to Anson for I sent an email to him when I heard he retired and I said there's a phrase that we all stand on the shoulders of giants, and there's a lot of us that are standing on Anson's shoulders in women's soccer.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen, amen. Win in soccer. Amen, amen, amen. We're not done. We still have the Bracken Brain Buster. That after this message from another corporate partner of the ECNL.
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Speaker 1:For the athletes who give everything, nothing beats Gatorade, the studied, tested and proven fuel of the ECNL Wrapping up the 100th episode of Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast, and we do it with Doug Bracken's Bracken Brain Buster.
Speaker 5:This will bring my Olympic experience to a close. I don't know how you guys are, but I just love the Olympics. I love it. We talked about it last time when the olympics was starting. What event you were looking forward to seeing most today, to put a wrap on the olympics, is what is the one moment or one thing that you saw that either like sticks with you, inspired, you, made you go wow.
Speaker 5:So that would be my thing and christian, if you didn't watch the Olympics because you are not a patriot like the rest of us, then you'll have to make something up, but I'm going to start with Ashley so that Christian has enough time to make something up, probably springboard diving or something for Christian basically like favorite Olympic memory.
Speaker 3:Is what you're asking for?
Speaker 5:yes, thing that got you out of your seat, thing that inspired you.
Speaker 3:I mean, I think the women's four by four. I mean we weren't even in the same frame as the rest of the field. That was ridiculous, Right.
Speaker 5:Which is like just the best thing at the Olympics is when the Americans like aren't even in the same frame as the rest of the field because we're just killing everyone. That's my favorite.
Speaker 3:I love that I watched that I was at the edge of my seat.
Speaker 5:Okay, dean, you saw stuff live, so this is gonna have a great dancing. He did see all these things he's gonna talk about with his wife.
Speaker 1:She was there my wife was there. Both my boys were there. My oldest son's girlfriend was there. It was two of the greatest weeks of my life. Both of my boys have sent notes to my wife saying it's the two greatest weeks of their life. You know, without question I think Christian will appreciate this because my son, after Steph Curry, gave him his shoe when he was 12, knew he wanted to work in the NBA and he's now headed out to law school. In fact, he leaves in four days to head to University of Oregon, which, coincidentally, is in the Big Ten, which is crazy.
Speaker 1:But we not only got to go to the games and I'm definitely bragging and I apologize but I'm lucky, I'm married up Everything included hospitality. So we were around GMs. We were around Daryl Morey with the Sixers. We were around Rod Palenka, we were around LeBron James, Agent Rich Paul, and we were talking to him and Max was talking to him and I was so proud of him and he was telling him that he's going to law school. And let me just tell you as much soccer as I've done. Both my kids were basketball players. The Serbia USA game next to my son, mid-row, with all these GMs around down 13, going into the fourth quarter, having not won any quarter at all. The greatest basketball game I've ever seen and I think, the greatest basketball game that's ever been played. I mean, it was just remarkable. So it's an easy pick for me. And then, obviously, I bow down to the US women winning the gold medal.
Speaker 5:So yeah, US men's basketball beat serbia in the semi-final. Down the whole game, serbia hit a ton of threes and just clawed their way back that was amazing game.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. The max went to the gold medal game too.
Speaker 5:I didn't get to go good game, I mean, but the serbia game was awesome. Christian, what do you got? Baham bug?
Speaker 4:well, I did watch all the soccer, so I will say that probably a couple of things to highlight. First was, uh, dean linkey being punked by his kids on the show I did, I did get a little video on social media of that.
Speaker 4:So that was a highlight. That was probably second place to uh the the shooting assassin guy who, uh, just steps up and looks like he just got out of bed and nails all the. I I didn't even watch it, I just saw the social meme and then, uh, you know the bizarre break, dancing whatever they call it, rolling on the ground zero points from australia. I don't even know what was going on. So I I'm going to say pretty much I watched the soccer.
Speaker 5:I had stuff on in the background and I didn't much pay attention to it after that, all right, the great thing about Bracken's brain busters is I can ask whatever questions I want and Christian can't do anything about it, but try to answer them. All right, I'm going to go with giving due credit to all the other folks. I thought Grant Fisher in, I would say Grant Fisher and Cole Hawker in the distance races. So 1500 Cole Hawker from the U S one, and then the 5,000 and the 10,000 Grant Fisher from the U S one, our payment bronze, bronze medalist. Those were the two moments I was standing up yelling go, go. Just the fact that the us is not known at all on the distance running for those guys to put up.
Speaker 4:And I think we had a guy get the silver medal in the 3 000 meter steeplechase this is part of the problem with remote work is that bracken apparently spent the last two weeks watching the olympics?
Speaker 5:I put it on on my computer in the corner where I could keep an eye. You can go on peacock replay.
Speaker 1:I love the olympics, my favorite, love it hey, I got a high five from snoop dog too, by the way.
Speaker 4:That's way up there and that's pretty high dan you should have put that way high snoop a loop.
Speaker 5:Snoop brought it. He brought it. His badminton play-by-play solid. If you haven't seen that, look it up. Pretty solid there it is Bracken Brain Busters. We won't talk about the Olympics.
Speaker 1:All right For four years. The 100th episode of Breaking the Line the ECNL podcast is complete. I want to thank Christian, doug and Ashley and all the great people at the ECNL, including all of the wonderful clubs, their coaches, players, administrators everybody that makes the ECNL so special. I also want to thank my producer, colin Thrash, for each and every one of them and all of you. I'm Dean Linke. We'll see you in two weeks for episode 101 of Breaking the Line the ECNL podcast. Thank you for listening to Breaking the Line the ECNL podcast and remember, if you have a question that you want answered on Breaking the Line the ECNL podcast, email us at info at the ECNLcom.