Breaking the Line: The ECNL Podcast
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Breaking the Line: The ECNL Podcast
The Future of ECNL Soccer and Coaching Development | Ep.105
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What if a single competition could redefine club soccer? Discover the groundbreaking Super Cup for boys' teams in ECNL, designed to challenge clubs across multiple age groups with its unique format and culminating premier event held in Raleigh, North Carolina. Explore how this innovative approach not only celebrates top-performing clubs but also provides the flexibility to form representative teams, creating an unparalleled experience in youth soccer. We also dive into the fascinating world of coach education, discussing the partnership with the Coach's Voice and what it means for the future of coaching in the ECNL community. Finally, join us as we tackle the often overlooked challenges of coaching education and the journey beyond licenses. From the financial hurdles faced by aspiring coaches in the U.S. to the importance of developing a personal coaching philosophy, we navigate the complexities of transitioning theoretical knowledge into practical application. Listen in to understand how coaches can teach players to think critically, and why continuous learning and adaptability are vital in coaching.
Welcome to Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast, a bi-weekly look at all things ECNL, covering topics that you care about and topics that make a difference. As always, leading the discussion today is ECNL President and CEO, christian Labors, ecnl Vice President and Chief of Staff, Doug Bracken, and Ashley Willis, ecnl's Partnership Activation and Alumni Relations Manager, christian Labors shares with us the topics we will cover today.
Speaker 2:I'm going to start with a little overview of the new things happening in the league. Obviously, we're in the first quarter of the year fall season sort of in the middle of action, talk about a couple of new programs and why and what they are. Super Cup we announced a couple weeks ago, specific to the boys side, and the concept here is that we felt that it was time for a competition that was a little bit more qualification based to reward the clubs that perform at the highest level in the league across multiple age groups. And then we're going to dive into coach education and specifically the coach's voice and our partnership there, but a little bit broader on just coach education good, bad fact and reality on coach education and how that has evolved and what it does in the youth space.
Speaker 1:Great topics and another lively discussion, capped off with Doug Bracken's Brain Buster, and we get things started after this message from ECNL corporate partner Nike.
Speaker 3:Nike is a proud sponsor of ECNL. Nothing can stop what we can do together to bring positive change to our communities. You can't stop sport because hashtag. You can't stop our voices. Follow Nike on Instagram, facebook and Twitter.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast. You just heard the topics in the open, but we want to hear it again from the man who will lead the discussion, the CEO and president of the ECNL Christian Labors.
Speaker 2:Appreciate it. Dean, glad to have everybody back Going to start today with a little overview of the new things happening in the league. Obviously we're in the first quarter of the year, fall season sort of in the middle of action, club's kind of going through the doldrums of the fall as the weather starts to get a little colder in the north and we start looking towards showcase season. So we'll talk about a couple of new programs and why and what they are, and then we're going to dive into coach education and specifically the coach's voice and our partnership there, but a little bit broader on just coach education good, bad fact and reality on coach education and how that has evolved and what it does in the U space. So, doug, where do you want to start? What do you want to touch first?
Speaker 4:Super Cup would be a great place to start, given the name. Why not start the show with?
Speaker 2:something super. Let's do that. So Super Cup we announced a couple of weeks ago, specific to the boy side. Let's do that. So Super Cup we announced a couple weeks ago, specific to the boys' side, and the concept here is that we felt that it was time for a competition that was a little bit more qualification-based to reward the clubs that perform at the highest level in the league across multiple age groups. So we've had the Super Cup brand out there a little bit flexibly in how it's been used in the past.
Speaker 2:We've had this idea. We haven't sort of crystallized on it, but in the last couple of months, in discussion with Jason Kutney, the boys commissioner, some of our staff internally and, of course, with the board and the club leaders around the country, the first official boys Super Cup will be in December in Raleigh, north Carolina, at the NCFC facility where we're taking eight of the best clubs from the Eastern Seaboard, so clubs from the Southeast, from Florida, from North Atlantic, the clubs that, based on some metrics, have performed the best across multiple age groups, and they're each going to bring one team. That team can be whatever players they want. It can be their U18 team, it can be a mix of 16s, 17s and 18s and they're going to come play for a Super Cup trophy. So a very small event, very premium. You earn your way in. There's no invitations based on reputation or history or size. It's based on performance. We felt that was something that would be cool, exciting and an appropriate reward for players and teams that are excelling.
Speaker 4:You don't have to reinvent the wheel. You look around the world and there are all of these types of qualification-based competitions that take into consideration what you did the previous year and you know, qualify you for them. So you know, in theory, this is best on best in what I think would be a really cool little atmosphere, a good experience for the players. To me, the best part of it is your, the flexibility you have to bring a team that's a representative team from your particular club, so it doesn't necessarily have to be just one age group worth of players. That could be a really cool experience if clubs opt to do that and bring some younger players to get that experience. That's a really cool part of this.
Speaker 4:That's something we've talked about for many, many years. How do we, you know, create something like this that we can fit into the season? That makes sense for us? So I think landing on Super Cup is a good thing. We've had some semblance of stuff we've called the Super Cup over the years that, as frequently happens, we have been able to look at it and dissect it and evolve it into now kind of what we've put out there for this year. So yeah, so some details here.
Speaker 2:To be specific, the East Coast Super Cup December 13 to 15 in Raleigh, north Carolina also, where the NCAA College Cup for men's soccer will be. The cool part about that is that the only place in the country that college coaches can recruit during the men's college cup is in the same city. So this will be as part of the NCFC showcase held that weekend. So these kids will get a ton of college exposure. But the clubs were selected based on their performances across the U15 to U18 age group last season within their conference only. So we got the Florida conference, got Florida craze and Florida premiere. In the mid Atlantic we got NCFC and Beach FC. Out of Virginia, from the Northeast we have World Class and Pipeline and then from the Southeast we have NTH, nasa and UFA. So those eight clubs will come together that weekend, play a quarter final, a semi-final and a championship Super exciting.
Speaker 2:And then in the spring because we have two pilots for this, one on the east, one on the west in the spring, when we get out to early April, we're going to have the West Coast Super Cup and that's going to have teams that come from the southwest NorCal, northwest and mountain conference. Same basis based on their performances 15 to 18. And in that event event from the southwest we got san diego surf legends fc and lafc socal. From northern cal we have davis legacy and mustang. From the northwest we have crossfire, the overall club champion last year in seattle united, and from the mountain conference we have utah avalanche. So those guys will come together for a similar event to crown a champion.
Speaker 2:And these two small events, eight teams each, are going to set the stage so that in the 25-26 season we're going to add a third Super Cup event. So we'll have the East Coast Super Cup, the West Coast Super Cup and the Central Super Cup, so that every club in the ECNL boys has the possibility of qualifying for this event and one of these three events based on their performance. And like you said, doug, this is similar to competitions in other parts of the world where you recognize performance and you give something special to those clubs where they can match up best versus best, and something that is different, unique and hopefully will be really exciting for these players.
Speaker 4:I think it will be Again. We've had some events with similar kind of concepts loosely, and so now to kind of formalize it and put a plan out there and be able to execute on it and really make it a great experience. That is what we're about, what we've been about, and so I think this just lines up with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and one of our core values is that you have to have competition baked into everything we do. That's said, much nicer on our core value page. The cool part about this is this is not based on some resume or application. This is purely results, rewarding the clubs who perform the best in their conference, and that was really important to us in setting this up and so excited about that. On the girls' side it's a little bit different. So on the girls' side, a year ago we did a pilot program called the Texas League Cup, which went really well so well, in fact, that we've expanded into like 10 other League Cups this year across ECNL girls and ECNL regional league girls and the concept in the League Cup was that some conferences have a really, really busy schedule of games and we're looking for a way to reduce their number of total games based on the weekends that were available. But you can't reduce too much.
Speaker 2:We were looking for a way to change a format where we were reducing games. And then there is the reality that we looked at. If you're in the Midwest right now, or if you're in the mid Atlantic or one of the conferences playing in the fall, you can take this same example, out to the spring, you get into week number six, seven, nine of the season, you're coming up into showcase time and that's exciting. But the weather is getting a little colder, everybody's a little more tired and we said how can we make what is otherwise another conference game a little bit more exciting? And so what we did is we thought the one thing that we're missing in our competitions is a cup based almost single elimination cinderella opportunity where, even if maybe you're not in the top couple of spots in the conference, cup-based almost single elimination Cinderella opportunity where, even if maybe you're not in the top couple of spots in the conference and you're chasing a Champions League spot in conference play, there is another bite at the apple, if you will the ability to play in a cup that matches you up against some of the same teams, but in a different format, with the playoff spot on the line.
Speaker 2:So what we've done is in almost every one of these it'll be a requirement. In the League Cup moving forward, the winner of the League Cup gets a Champions League berth. In the ECNL and in a Regional League Cup they get a berth in the postseason, and so we've taken one of the automatic spots, allocated it to the Cup so that and so we've taken one of the automatic spots allocated it to the Cup so that, in theory, if you're the sixth place team in a 15-team conference, that's not going to get you into the Champions League most of the time, but if you win the League Cup, you take one of the limited Champions League spots. Now if you're a team that won the League Cup and you automatically qualify, well then it just goes away. But we thought that was a really kind of cool way to make what otherwise is a standard conference or league game a little different and a little bit more exciting.
Speaker 4:That in-season tournament again. You're seeing this happen in lots of different places in professional leagues. The NBA now has an in-season tournament. Nwsl has an in-season tournament.
Speaker 4:There are places around the country that are doing this to bring excitement into the season, because the reality is, over the course of several months, right to your point, you kind of get into the doldrums and the grinding, grinding it out and all that. So putting some excitement into it and again just creating another good experience that players and teams and clubs can get hyped about. If I look at and I always look at it through the lens of the conference that our club plays in and that's the ohio valley, it is a way also for us to reduce travel and keep the same general game count, because we have pretty tough travel in our conference and so this, I think, greatly kind of improves that, and so that hopefully also improves the experience. It also keeps us from having to jam so many games into short periods of time because of the weather that we have. So I'm super excited about this.
Speaker 4:I give generally Ralph Richards, our girls commissioner, a lot of credit because he came up with this idea along with guys in the Texas conference. Right Kind of mirrors like what we've done in the past, where when the regional league came about, we did it in a small pilot situation and then obviously the regional league has expanded into what did it in a small pilot situation and then obviously the regional league has expanded into what it is today. I think the league cups will follow. I think pre-CNL we're doing some stuff in pre-CNL that is pilot-based and that's really going to grow. But I give a lot of credit to Ralph for being the mastermind behind how this is going to work. I think it's exciting Once you kind of get that experience and the players in the clubs experience it.
Speaker 2:I think they'll really, they'll really enjoy it. Yeah, so the general format of a league cup and, by the way, there's 14 of them that we're launching this year, eight in the ECNL girls and six in the ECNL regional league so speaks to the nimbleness of the clubs and the league to be able to get these off the ground. But generally there's a group stage, where clubs are put into a group with the closest teams around them, so, to your point, reduces travel, and then the winners of each group go into a knockout phase. So each League Cup has generally two distinct components to a group stage and knockout playing for the postseason.
Speaker 2:And then we've tied a nice new brand around this because we want this to be something that's exciting, and we're looking at ways that we also can increase the atmosphere around this with the new brand that was revealed a couple weeks ago for ECNL League Cup Going to be fun, going to be exciting. And again, just speaking to our constant you're right, give the credit to Ralph and to the clubs in Texas for this concept. And then there are so many other clubs embracing it and saying let's try something new and try something different, because the goal here, the mission of our league, is to raise the game and ultimately, that means what we're trying to do is make the player experience better, and so adding things that are exciting, that are different, that are new, that inspire kids to work and clubs to get excited is what we feel is part of making the sport better and raising the quality of the play on the field, because kids that are inspired, clubs that are aspirational will drive the level of play forward.
Speaker 4:What we can learn from past experiences, which we've talked about on this podcast before, is you can get really stale and set in your ways unless you are very intentional about thinking about how to improve what you're doing and putting a lot of effort and time and thought into what you're doing, but, first and foremost, making it about the player experience and that has to be like the center of, and the club experience to what you're doing, and that has to be like the center of, and the club experience to what what you're doing. This is just born out of that having discussions and thinking about you know, what can we do? Always to change and adjust and be nimble to your point. That's how things like League Cup is born or Super Cup is born or, you know, any of the other things that we've done. So I think we'll keep doing that.
Speaker 2:Ashley, you've been. You've been quiet here. What do you think?
Speaker 5:on any of these concepts. I think the more opportunities we can provide that are different in competition, I think, the better. I think it's exciting for coaches. I think it's fun for players. To your point you could be out of their running to qualify for a Champions League spot, but make a run in League Cup and all of a sudden now you're back in it for playoffs. I think that's like part of the beauty of soccer is that there's not always a direct path. So to provide that, I think, is so fun.
Speaker 2:Soccer traditionally is a league-based performance sport. Right, the biggest trophy across the world in soccer comes through league performance. But that doesn't mean that cups aren't an important piece of it. And when we looked at our platform, we said we got a great league-based platform but we don't have a cup-based platform. Hopefully this will continue to grow. I think it will. Obviously, we're making a bet that it will because we put the brand out there and we're looking at ways to execute on some league cup events that we want to operate ourselves to further drive down on the excitement.
Speaker 2:So cool things. I'll say on that. And if you look at the some of the, I'll give you a little teaser. If you look at some of the graphics and some of the stuff that's come out, this is the 15th year of these. You know 15 years of crystal anniversary, as I've been told. I didn't know, but if you look at some of the graphics, you may see some things that look a little crystal as we start to roll out a celebration of 15 years. And I think what's made the league successful for 15 years is the ability to constantly adjust and change and adapt and recognize where there is a need for something new or something different, and that's a credit to the leadership in our board, which again are the directors of coaching, who are in the fields and on the sidelines, and to the coaches throughout the league, who are constantly looking at ways to make the experience better.
Speaker 1:Segment one in the books of the October 23rd edition of Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast. When we return, Christian Labors will switch the direction of the conversation to coaching education. This after a message from an ECNL corporate partner.
Speaker 3:Soccercom is proud to partner with the ECNL to support the continued development of soccer in the US at the highest levels. We've been delivering quality soccer equipment and apparel to players, fans and coaches since 1984. Living and breathing the beautiful game ourselves. Our goal at Soccercom is to inspire you to play better, cheer louder and have more fun. Visit Soccercom today to check out our unmatched selection of gear, expert advice and stories of greatness at every level of the game.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast, october 23rd edition. As promised, christian Labors, now will turn to coaching education.
Speaker 2:We also this year launched our ECNL Coach Education Center powered by the Coach's Voice.
Speaker 2:Hopefully everybody saw that the Coach's Voice is, in our opinion, the best digital coach education platform in the world.
Speaker 2:Basically, if there's a big name club or a big name coach anywhere, that coach male, female, international or a club is probably been on the coach's voice at some point in one of their various formats, either in a presentation talking about specific tactics in a game, or a filming of a session or an interview about philosophy.
Speaker 2:So we partnered with the coach's voice about a year and a half ago to launch a platform that is specific to us, the UCNL Coach Education Center, where we take experts that we feel add value to the unique American landscape and then combine that with the educators, leaders, experts that they bring from all over the world.
Speaker 2:And then we became the first league that we know of anyway and again somebody can fact check that but the first league we know that has a digital coach education requirement of CPD or coach professional development, every year and launched it this year so that every coach in the ECNL, in order to be on the sidelines, has to do CPD through the year Five hours of CPD. We released that this spring and the cool part is in the last seven, eight months, whatever it's been, we got more than 5,000 coaches in that system for the first time and more than 25,000 hours of coach education that has gone out to coaches not just in the ECL, because we believe education is agnostic and you should be able to access it no matter what league you're in, what club you're in, but it's a system that's open for any club, any coach to join and see the content that our experts provide content like Dr Drew Watson, doug Lemoff, kerry Boley, but also content from the biggest names all over the sport.
Speaker 4:It is absolutely best in class the presentation of it, the production of it, the platform itself outside of just the ECNL part of it, is a very comprehensive resource, I think, not only from a session perspective or exercises or whatever, but just being able to watch how other coaches from around the world run these sessions and how they interact with players, which I think is really important.
Speaker 4:I have over the years and Christian, you and I and Ashley I don't know what degree you've gone through like the standard coach education platforms through U soccer yet, but Christian and I have done all of those. I think I've fallen down and I'd be interested to see what you guys think. I've fallen on the idea that if you're in any industry, you should be seeking information and trying to get better and you do that by exposing yourself to different ideas and different ways of doing things and along that path you then kind of carve out how you do things and what you believe in. I've fallen more on that than passing coaching courses and getting accreditation, the coach's voice piece of it. What we're trying to do is push that idea, I think Christian. Push that idea that education is important. That idea, I think, christian, but push that idea that education is important Getting as much information that you can use to do what you do better is what we're trying to say is important for coaches.
Speaker 5:I was super excited to see the partnership with Coach's Voice because I think one of my favorite ones that I've seen is the masterclass with Casey Stoney when she was at man United and she talked about why she played in the box midfield and why she did it specifically against Arsenal, with Miedema and when Tobin was over there. I love that one. I go back and watch it all the time because I personally would love to play in the box midfield. So when we had this partnership I was very excited about it.
Speaker 5:I think asking coaches to do five hours of education is nothing. I enjoyed the five hours. I think the more you can learn and kind of adapt, and I think the best part of coaching education is not like necessarily the content that you get through the education itself. It's like working with peers. It's belting ideas off of like why do you play like that? What's your philosophy? So I think to then not mandate that's kind of a strong word but to encourage people to go through the coach's voice and things like that, I'm all for it. I could go on for days about this.
Speaker 2:It was important to us in this that one of the challenges in any type of coach education is access and cost. And when you have to do it in person, there's obviously a time cost and there's a travel cost, and when you're doing it in person as well, there's a limit to the number of people that can ever be in the course or on site. And that's been a challenge for Coach Ed in this country for a long time and the Federation, to be fair, has struggled with it. And there's been some things that have gone on in Coach Ed that haven't been great in the Federation in terms of limiting access, raising prices and making it very difficult to get some of the higher level licenses. I think there are some people in the Federation that are trying to change that at this point. If you look and go and take a license, for example, the cost of the course is several thousand dollars, plus you got multiple onsite in-person events you have to go to. So it's probably for many people you're not going to get an A license for less than seven, six, seven $8,000 by the time you add up travel costs and tuition costs. Plus it's really hard, and so there's a separation between content, which can be really good, but if it's really expensive and hard to get to, then the quality of the content is almost irrelevant, because not enough people can get it right. And to get an A license, you got to do the same thing at a B license, which is again a couple thousand dollars plus a couple of trips to get on site.
Speaker 2:And so when we created this, our first discussion with Coach's Voice was the importance of this being really easy to access number one, so that you can listen to it on your phone. You can listen to it sitting in your hotel room or at home or whatever. That was important. The second part was that it'd be very, very low cost, so that it's actually something that a lot of people have access to without having to spend a ton of money and I think it's done that.
Speaker 2:And to your point, ashley, to be able to have access to coaches that are coaching in the top level of football in the world men's, women's, youth and then access to people who are working in America. It's a nice cross section, because you can look at a session of U8s in England and then listen to a coach talking about a Champions League game. It gives you the opportunity to take information in. Some of it's just really exciting and interesting but then also play with it and bring it back to your environment, and I think that's actually where most learning takes place, is it's the phrase. Learning is an active experience where you take this information back and try and apply it and make it yours and make it resonate in your environment.
Speaker 4:Christian, where do you land on coaching licensing and how it's kind of been rolled out as you get an, a license that makes you a good coach and all that.
Speaker 2:We'll all have different opinions on this, I think. But I'd start with if you want to be professional, then some sort of education and ongoing education is part of that. If you think about whether you're a teacher or you're a lawyer or you're a doctor, there is ongoing education. That's part of that. That's required on an annual or a couple year basis. There's also some base level degrees or certificates or licenses that are required with that. So I agree with you, number one, that the best people are constantly learning.
Speaker 2:I learned a lot through my courses that I took the licenses I took. Those were very helpful. Those are really a moment in time. You know. It's sort of a crash course of information that you take and then you prove that you can jump over a hurdle in that moment.
Speaker 2:But I think anybody would tell you that just having a license doesn't make you a good coach. And if you have a license and you run a team in the same formulaic way that a lot of coach education licenses are performed, you're not going to have a very happy team. A coach education environment can be very sterile. You have to figure out how do you take some of the really important and good concepts and principles of teaching and session development and all those things that are covered in there and bring it to life in the specific environment that you have, depending on the age, the level, the resources, the facilities. I guess that's a long-winded answer to say.
Speaker 2:I think doing coach licensing is important because you get better from it. If you don't learn something in every license you take, then that's on you, because regardless of the quality of the instructor, you can take something away. That's just the start. Then it's about what do you do informally and on a go forward basis to continue to grow and develop by exposing yourself to new ideas, to your point actually debating and discussing with peers, doing formal, continuous developments.
Speaker 4:How do you take the education that you've garner or the experiences that you garner, and how do you put that into your daily environment?
Speaker 2:I'll give you an example, an analogy to that right and I think you guys will agree with this. Actually, I'm going to watch your body language here. But if you go to any coach education events where a coach is doing a field session, they lay out a session and they do a field session and let's just say there's 50 coaches watching. My guess is that of the 50 coaches watching, 35 to 40 of them will do that exact same session in the next week.
Speaker 2:They will say oh okay, I kind of like that. I'm going to do it.
Speaker 4:They will begin to play the box midfield.
Speaker 2:But you know, it is sort of the and by the way, you guys tell me if you disagree, but the average soccer coach watching coach education stands in the background, crosses their arms and says, well, I would do it different, I would do it better. But then they go and they do the exact same session because they're like, well, I'm going to try this, now that I've watched it and criticized it, I'm going to try it myself. And you're smiling, so I'm going to take that as you know that this is true, that you've been one of those coaches who've done this.
Speaker 2:We all have done that to be clear. But that's the learning process, right? How do you take it back as you do it and you find out that, okay, when I do this and engage with this session or this content or whatever I learn as I do it. It's like the old adage if you ever want to know how well you know something, try teaching it Right. And so once you try and teach it, you learn better yourself, and then you adapt it to make it work for you. So, again, I think it's very, very active. We could have Doug Lemo up on this and he'd have probably a lot more intelligent things to say, but actually you're smiling, so you know, are you, are you have you copied one of those sessions that you've watched?
Speaker 4:All our teams are playing a box midfield. Have you not seen this right now?
Speaker 5:I wish my team was playing a box midfield. I've gone through my licensing. I'm currently in my A, so I think the hardest part of like your D to your B.
Speaker 2:So did you take out a loan for that? Or I mean Am. I right on the cost, by the way.
Speaker 5:The cost is absurd. I will say this If you're a man, it's more because there's the Jill Ellis Foundation scholarship that covers 50% of a B license or an A license for women.
Speaker 2:Is that a humble brag? Did you get a scholarship?
Speaker 5:I did.
Speaker 2:Thank you you don't even have to apply.
Speaker 5:Congratulations.
Speaker 4:There we go, really, thank you. There you go, congratulations.
Speaker 5:There we go, really. Yeah, it's automatically in. If you're a woman and you're a B or you're A, it's 50% is covered by the Jill Ellis scholarship.
Speaker 2:Wow, I didn't know that. A little shout out to the Jill Ellis Foundation.
Speaker 5:I know this license and my last license was basically like the combination of like one guy taking a B or an A, so I'm not upset.
Speaker 2:So, first of all, that's a cool and a nice shot out there, a little legacy thing with Jill's name on it, but the overall price point am I about accurate in terms of what it would have been without that scholarship, in terms of travel and everything else?
Speaker 5:Oh, for sure I'm lucky, being in Florida, that everyone wants to come to Florida to host a course, like US Soccer does, so I haven't had that expense so much, but-.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't have to fly.
Speaker 5:Yeah, the expenses are. They're insane. You're pretty right on the money as like if you're adding up flights and stuff, the B and the A is like covered with your hotel, but the C I'd go to Utah for my C because of COVID and that cost me a pretty penny.
Speaker 2:Well, here's a fact that we were doing a study on this a couple of years ago in Europe and it was a comparison, of course, cost like UEFA licenses at the time, and number of coaches in that country with the licenses. And, shockingly, you'll be surprised to know that the higher the cost, the lower the number of coaches in that country that had a license of a UEFA A, b or C. The lowest cost country actually in terms of getting it was Spain, and they had way more A licensed UEFA coaches than any other country in that study, and yet the UK was in that. I think the UK was the most expensive. So it is one of those things that if you really want to educate a lot of people, you got to find a way to reach them where they are in a way that doesn't have barriers to entry, of cost and access. And that's the other part is, maybe you had easier access to it as well.
Speaker 2:But for many, many of the last several years, getting into an A or a B course was almost impossible because there weren't enough of them.
Speaker 2:And that speaks to how difficult the Federation has made it to be a coach educator, that they just can't offer enough courses. And I think they've tried to remedy that in the last couple of years and there's more and more coaching courses happening as they've empowered other people to do it. But that was a friction point for many, many years of this balance between quality of coach education or coach educator or consistency and then access, and so you can move that dial. But the harder you make it to be a coach educator, the more you demand alignment with certain standards, the less you're able to offer the number of courses you need. And when people look at this country and we've talked about this from a player perspective I mean it's a continent. So when you model coach education off of what's going on in Holland, where everybody can drive two hours and you're through the whole country, you can't really take that model and say, well, let's do that coach education model in the United States, where two hours and I'm still in North Texas.
Speaker 4:I did at the time what was the last? A audit, because they were doing away with auditing to maintain your A license which I believe now they brought back.
Speaker 2:No. So again to go back, you used to have an A and need to get some type of continuing education credit to keep the A active. Then they stopped that for a variety of different reasons, I don't remember all of them. They were going to bring that back and then I think there was real challenges saying, well, hold on, how do we offer enough credits or coach ed hours to allow everybody who's going to need to do this to keep an active license to do it? And they couldn't solve it or they ran into problems in solving it and then that plan got shelved. So right now there's no continuing education required in any of the licenses, which is again I go back to. I think our annual requirement is the only one I'm aware of in the United States.
Speaker 5:US Soccer was saying that they were going to roll out. If you have a B or an A, you have to have a certain amount of CPUs a year in order to keep it. But nothing to your point has come from it yet. It was like 25 hours if you had an A, 18 hours if you had a B, 10 hours if you had a C. But I heard about that two years ago and I've yet to see anything come.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's about when it was two or three years ago is when those things were imminent, and then it just kind of quietly went away.
Speaker 5:And I, to my knowledge at this point I'm certainly not the expert on it, but to my knowledge there's no indication it's coming back- I assume the rumblings of you're going to make us do this and then you have to pay her CPU is like you're another money grab sort of situation.
Speaker 4:So here's the question I was going to ask you. Christian is at that audit course. I got into a conversation with one of the US soccer coach educators which who was? Who was Dutch, because we had a strong Dutch influence at the time in the US soccer coaching education department and what I said to him we were talking about the pro license and I asked him what would I need to do to take the pro license? He said, well, you're a youth coach, you don't need it. And I said yeah, but I would like to get better understand. Maybe you know accredit myself so that maybe one day I could go to that level. And he's like you can't, you don't need it, you're a youth coach.
Speaker 2:I remember those days, those conversations.
Speaker 4:What are your thoughts? And that goes back to the access conversation and your ability to access these courses.
Speaker 2:So, before we get accused of piling on, I will say that I do not believe that is the philosophy anymore and the new leadership in the Federation and the new coach education people have tried very hard to reverse some of that by opening access. So that's my caveat. But, to your point, they used to refer to this and we're talking now like 2018, 2019, probably. They used to refer to coaches as having a terminal license based on what they believed was what you needed. So, to your example, if you were a youth coach, well, the C license was the sort of first national 11 aside license targeted towards youth. And so if you're a youth coach, you should really be a terminal license of a C. You don't need a B, or you don't need an A because that is for more sophisticated, higher level, whatever.
Speaker 2:And we used to say well, that's not American, you don't cap somebody's education because you deem that, whatever they're doing, they don't need more.
Speaker 2:And I used to use the argument of like if somebody is going into an area that's not a huge soccer market, wouldn't you want them to be as educated as possible to maybe turn it into a better soccer market, rather than saying, hey, good, you don't need more than that.
Speaker 2:There was a lot of that. And then with that went restricted access. Right, because not only was it, you don't need it, it was, if you're not working in that environment, we're not going to let you get the qualification. And that, you know, creates a circular effect where ultimately, again, you're restricting access and then you're only anointing a certain group of people who have now this qualification. That becomes, you know, required in order to coach at that level and then it's sort of QED as they say. So I think that's changed a lot in a positive way in terms of now recognizing that. I think their phrase is democratizing soccer knowledge, and I'll give JT Batson and his team credit for changing those policies and saying our job here is to educate as many people to whatever degree we can, because that was not the philosophy five years ago.
Speaker 4:No, I wanted to circle back to what we were talking about and this relates a little bit to the podcast we did last week but the way I look at these things as we talked about how do we take the information that we get in education and apply it to our environment and what we do. One of the things that affected me as I went through education, and have continued to do so, is I went from probably looking at the what they were doing and more how they were doing it, more how they were doing it. That line of thinking allowed me to establish a philosophy of my own. I took these pieces of information not what session they were running, but how they were running it. It allows you, as a coach, to develop your own philosophy, which obviously changes over the course of time, because you're going to be seeing many more different things and ideas and ways of doing things that might impact you in a certain way, and then what I try to say to our coaches is from a philosophy. Then you have to decide how am I going to deploy this philosophy across my team, my club, whatever the case may be?
Speaker 4:So what is the methodology? And that's what Kerry Bully, who is our technical advisor talks about a lot about methodology and needing to have a methodology. I think that was the point I wanted to make, because I think sometimes, when you're young in this and I don't know if Ashley, if you feel this way or not as someone younger in their coaching career it's kind of hard sometimes to take all those pieces of information that you're getting or what you're watching or what you're seeing or what you're learning, and take it to your environment. And how do you do that? Do you have any insight on how you've been impacted like that?
Speaker 5:One of the harder parts of the earlier licensing is it's very like we're going to tell you what we want to hear and we just regurgitate it back to us. It's like everything's a six v seven, everything's a half field, two goals and a big goal. And so that part is hard because, like you're trying to, it's not a normal training environment, like you're not always playing a six feet.
Speaker 2:By the way. By the way, every player hates playing to one big goal and two counter goals.
Speaker 4:If you roll that session out to any player, they're like oh, that's well, I think that's the difference between passing a course and and taking the pieces of how people are doing things there and developing some idea or thought.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and I think that was the hard part of the licensing with the B, especially because it was you're learning or trying to talk about bigger concepts, but then when you're going on the field, they only want to see one thing when you're in that environment. So then you're going to your environment at home and you're trying to do what your club methodology is, your club periodization is what your team needs, but then you're trying to think about okay, what did I just learn in my license? To your point, it is like kind of a weird balance of what am I learning versus what am I actually doing, and I'm finding in the A it's a lot more freeing of like. In some ways it's infuriating because they're like do whatever you want, I'm like, but what do you want me to do? And they're like anything in the world, I'm like. Okay, that's not helpful.
Speaker 2:That's such a change, though, ashley, because even in again, we go back five years ago, and this this goes to the general topic of. You know, our country's had this history of like hire somebody and then we become that person's way right, the Dutch way, you know, the German way, the English way, the Spanish way, whatever. But again going back five years ago, there was all this debate. You couldn't do a rondo, for example, which you know that was like. A rondo is not appropriate in development because it's not directional Right, and if you did that, by the way, that was a big black mark.
Speaker 2:And you couldn't use neutral players Couldn't use neutral players.
Speaker 5:You could create an overload.
Speaker 2:Correct and it was so rigid and, in my opinion, so garbage. All of that because the reality is and I go back to I took the at the time it was called the. It was the NSCAA premier license. This was a long time ago, but Anson Dorrance was the actually instructor and I had gone through a bunch of US soccer licenses. At the time I had done my C, my B and, I think, my A, and I learned in all of those right To one degree or another.
Speaker 2:But Anson and the premier was the first time that an instructor said well, if you can defend it and it makes sense, then that is okay, because before that to your point it was, you needed to know exactly what the answer was from that instructor, and he was the first one who said no, everybody has different opinions and there's certain logical consistency. If what you're talking about makes sense from a principal's perspective and a logic perspective, then yeah, go ahead and do it, and I think that's the art of coaching right, and to some degree you probably have to start with a little more rigidity in education to set some basic foundations. But ultimately, being an expert coach comes now then, into being able to manipulate principles, manipulate constraints, manipulate setups to get the learning outcome of task or behavior that you want.
Speaker 5:Yep, yeah, not having to do a 76 big goals, small goals, whether you're in the final third, the middle third, the attacking third, is wonderful in so many ways. But it's also realistic to what your environment is, because now you're able to do exactly what you normally do in a training environment, like you're not always going to be like that. And, to your point, when they were saying that you couldn't do a rondo, I was like what do you mean? You can't do a rondo because it's not directional. Like sometimes you just want to throw the kids on the side of the field and let them do a rondo real quick, because they're kids ultimately.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's a difference between teaching a concept that is general and maybe earlier in the learning curve, like I got to learn about positioning and body shape and angle and different types of passing, where you don't need a directional game to teach that. Now, eventually, the game is directional, right.
Speaker 2:So, if all you do is rondos and you go in any direction, you always probably go into the direction where there's less people, which in a directional game is backwards right, so eventually it has to be directional. But this concept that at no point ever is a multi-directional game appropriate is just crazy. And I go back to you know, you guys have heard me say you can explain the whole world in Star Wars and only a Sith speaks in absolutes. That's what I say to all that stuff.
Speaker 4:I've always had a lot of respect for anyone playing against anyone who you could tell had an idea and a philosophy about how they wanted to do it, Whether I agreed with it or didn't agree with it. When you could see clearly they have a way of playing, then you can respect that. You don't have to agree with it, but you can respect it.
Speaker 5:To that point of like it's infuriating to play against a team that just dumps it in behind and just is a bunch of athletes and they're clearly not being taught or developed. But then when you play a team that's like they're trying to play. Maybe they're not as good as the team technically or athletically, as the team that just dumps it and goes, but you can tell that the coach is trying to get them to play, that they're well-organized. I think I would take that team every single day of the week over than the team that just is a dump and run.
Speaker 4:But that goes back to your philosophy, right, and what you believe in. I think the beauty of our sport is that there can be different people that believe different things. The point is that you have a philosophy that you lean into and that's you teach that. You have a philosophy that you lean into and that's you teach.
Speaker 2:Let's slice that onion a little thinner, though, because Ashley's talking about the just clear. There's no thought, there's no decision, there's just smash the ball up the field, low risk, press and capitalize on athleticism. That is different than a more direct style of play that is intended on. Let's get forward and be more vertically oriented than left, right, backwards and possess it 15 times before we go to goal, Because you can see the difference between a group that is thinking about how they intentionally find space behind you and intentionally break lines more directly than another team. That's a very different scenario than somebody who's clearly just encouraging emotion, aggression and vertical smashing.
Speaker 4:My whole point about this was I can appreciate someone who has a philosophy, whatever it is. If it's a direct philosophy and you can see they clearly have ideas around that, then that's fine. I think that's great. So that was my point.
Speaker 4:It's someone who passes for passing sake or doesn't have a clearer way of trying to do something that's harder for me to get behind. Right, you have these courses, or you go through Coach's Voice or whatever, to establish a philosophy, a way that you believe the game should be played, and then teach your players accordingly.
Speaker 5:Another infuriating thing to coach against or even just to watch.
Speaker 2:You get infuriated a lot, it seems.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Short wick Just got a short wick A little bit.
Speaker 5:It's the German in me. I just have rage issues sometimes when I coach, just um, that's a very broad statement, that's right. That's right. A tough part of what you were saying, christian, about watching kids play with a purpose and you can tell that they're thinking. It's hard as a coach when you the other coach is just not letting the kids think and there's a misconception of parents being like oh, my coach isn't coaching because he or she is not up and yelling for 90 minutes in a game where it's like, no, I'm letting the kids think for a second.
Speaker 4:But this goes back to how you establish your environment and how you communicate the way you're going to do things.
Speaker 2:Well, hold on. There's a difference again between the person who's just up yelling nonsense and joysticking every single thing, and the person who might be more or less vocal, but there is there's questions.
Speaker 4:There's you can tell when they're referring back to a concept that has been taught right and trying to get that concept in front of mind of the player but I think what ashley was referring to is that maybe certain parents or whatever are won over by this kind of fake coaching, if you will like, yelling and screaming, which is makes people believe, oh, this person's really really getting after it. Really coaching and I think that was my point to her is make sure that you, your people in your environment, understand the way you're doing it and why you're doing it that way, and I think that alleviates a lot of the worry that you should have about whether or not the people on the other side think you're doing a great job or not. Because you choose to sit down and let your players make the decisions. Right, if you tell them this is how I do it and this is why I do it this way, I think that combats some of that.
Speaker 5:I was just saying I think it's really hard to watch kids and I was just recently at a showcase and there was a scout sitting at half field for the league and they were like I have no idea if that girl on that team is making that decision because she knows that's the decision she needs to make or it's because her coach hasn't shut up for the last 45 minutes and she's just telling that her players every single pass here, pass there, go there, move here. So it's hard to watch as a coach and just honestly a fan of the game of, like I don't know if that kid actually has been developed at all.
Speaker 2:The first thing that happens, I think and tell me if you agree with this is when you're teaching a player to think and to make decisions, because the first piece of that is to know what to look for. So there's a perception skill. And then so you got to find, as I think Doug would say, call the signals through the noise, what are the cues that are important to make this decision. Then, based on what those cues say, what is the decision? Then you execute the decision. So there's perception, decision, action. Right, if you're teaching that to a young player or a new concept, the first thing that happens is they slow down because they're actually thinking and then they're trying to figure it out. And if you slow down, by definition, in a sport where speed of action, speed of thought, speed of perception is the difference between levels, you're going to be less effective in the short term because the players are actually learning to think and see and make decisions In some ways.
Speaker 2:I think the question is when you're looking and when I hear you both talk is when you watch the coach, when you watch the player, and some of this is nonverbal from the player, because you can see where their eyes are, you can see their body language, all that stuff? Are they actually trying to process information and make a decision, and is the coach supporting that process? Or is this purely a joystick? I'm telling you what decision to make, you just execute it, just like we used to say B button B button in Sega, which I think was B button, you run faster, or something like that. Do you agree that when you're learning something like this, the player will slow down in their execution and behavior as they learn it?
Speaker 4:A hundred percent? Yes, absolutely. And you have to have the fortitude and the willingness to get through that time of slower yeah, Because you can't get faster until you've gone slower right.
Speaker 2:Correct To Ashi's point you can be fast and not learn anything because your fast look means I'm not looking, I'm just smashing right. Fast decision is I don't have a decision, I'm smashing right and you're fast. And, by the way, if I'm athletic and strong and I'm not looking, I'm just smashing right. Fast decision is I don't have a decision, I'm smashing right and you're fast. And, by the way, if I'm athletic and strong and I'm fast, like that, I'm going to have success to a long degree as a youth player, as a young youth player.
Speaker 2:Compared to the player who slows down because they're trying to think, it's like the kid who tries to control the ball and then think against somebody who's just sprinting into their face right, because the kid who's trying to stop the ball and look, is just going to get run over by the kid who's just running and pressing, and not thinking, and smashing the ball forward. And it's the classic short-term, long-term.
Speaker 4:We're in a long-term business. That's a fact. Short-term pressures that exist, that we have to understand that. That is reality. But we are in the long game.
Speaker 2:The other thing I want to add on this and you mentioned this earlier and I'm going to ask if you guys identify with this and it's the what versus how, right? Because the other thing you see, if we go back to my scenario of 50 coaches watching a field session, a lot of coaches and we were all this coach probably at some point look at the session and the activity and you see them writing it down and drawing the box and the X's and the O's. Although an official coach had lexicon, I don't think we can use X's and O's. We're supposed to use triangles and boxes now, or something like that.
Speaker 5:Triangles and circles. Your triangles are blue.
Speaker 2:Okay, I see.
Speaker 5:You're actually both triangles now.
Speaker 2:At least we're putting emphasis on the important things. But I use X's and O's Okay, so people draw that. And then they're like do you have a clipboard? No, I usually just have a notebook.
Speaker 4:Okay, all right, just checking.
Speaker 2:Or I. Sometimes I use different colored cones and make it on the on the grass itself, which that's probably an automatic fail. But they draw it out and then you hear the oh, I know that activity. And then they just shut off because it's almost, it's the old. I think this was gary fuando from uh, bill athletic. Bill bell made this point to me at some point. It's like if the book is 10 000 drills for dummies, you need to read the whole title. You know 10 000 drills for dummies, right. But people, especially early on, you're like you think you need a different drill all the time and like the secreted coaching is the one activity and drill I haven't seen yet.
Speaker 2:A golden activity. The reality is that the magic is not the activity. There is some need for good session design, for sure, but the magic of really good coaches is what they say to the players and what they get the players to think about within that activity. Because, to the general point, you can coach any topic in the game if you know what to look for and you know how to get players to put their attention on it. And if the session is poorly designed, you might not get the topic you want. Very often that's the part of session design that's important is you want to create a session and an activity that raises the frequency of the type of behavior that you want to coach. But take the session design piece out. A really good coach and coach anything in a seven aside, a nine aside, 11 aside, a four aside-side, 11-a-side, a four-a-side, because they get the player's attention put in the right place and give them then the information and the insight and the questioning for them to teach themselves.
Speaker 4:When I go back to the coach's voice, our module had Chelsea youth team session, I think under tens right, and I think in the past I would have looked at that for what the exercises they were doing, the what, what are they doing? And I think you just gain experience over time, and so I've looked at how they were instructing the players, what they were asking from them, their communication to them, and so that's how I try to look at a session, which I think is your point you're trying to make. Is not the golden exercise that we oh my god, I just found the exercise of all exercises. I am going to be a serial winner now actually she looks like she's right now.
Speaker 2:You just took a big breath. She's like no, I have the golden exercise, guys. I'm about to let my German Don't say it's transition game, because you can't teach anything in transition game. It's just about high intensity and battling. But go ahead, Ash.
Speaker 5:I've got nothing for that. No, got nothing.
Speaker 4:Wow, she looked like she was ready there. You guys know what?
Speaker 2:I'm talking about about the transition game. Flying Changes was the other one. There's like no tactical information in that game.
Speaker 5:Flying Changes is no fun. It's super fun.
Speaker 2:Super fun, that's what it is Zero tactical information.
Speaker 4:That's right. That's what it is. You can do that in training.
Speaker 2:True.
Speaker 2:But it is under the auspice of fun, fun and battle correct for further information. You can go to anything carrie boley talks about, because there's a difference between we talk about what and how. It's almost curriculum versus methodology. Curriculum is a list of topics okay, and every club in the you know a lot of people say they have an unbelievable curriculum. The curriculum mean it legitimately is just a list of topics. It doesn't tell you anything about how you teach those topics, when you teach those topics, what the interaction is in those topics, and that's methodology. That is the how and that's where, to use Doug's magic word, that's where the magic happens. The magic happens in the how.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I'm waiting for you to share your magic session with me, that I can go become a serial winner.
Speaker 4:Clearly I have not achieved said status of serial winner.
Speaker 2:But I said earlier, every player hates the big goal counter goal, which is obviously somebody's going to say I love that, it's my favorite activity. But I mean, let's just, if you're playing big goal counter goal, which team do you want to be on all the time?
Speaker 2:shooting at the big goal yeah, going to the big goal, all right, and, by the way, if we're going to have fun with that activity, if you're the team going to counter goals, you're very rarely given much time on the ball. Right, all the activity is allowing the team with going to the big goal to get the ball and then, when you win, what happens most of the time? The team going to the counter goes, win it and immediately there's a freeze Coaching point, time Coaching point. And so, yeah, that's why I say that most players really don't like those activities, not saying that there's not a value for them or we haven't used them. But you know that goes back to the difference between a license and a real environment of how do I manage this with kids that I have every single day for a year.
Speaker 4:I think the overriding thought, which we always try to wrap on an overriding thought on this, is education is good, and if you want to get better at whatever you're doing, then you should educate yourself.
Speaker 2:And and and. Because I was like and there are really good coaches who don't have coaching licenses, and just because you have a coaching license doesn't mean you're a really good coach. That's not to slam the licenses we've all talked about. They're important, just like your regular continuous learning is important. There's no magic conferred with the fact that you have a license or that you did some CPD.
Speaker 5:It doesn't matter about your license, it doesn't matter about where you played, how long you played. I think there's like people who never played who are very good coaches. There's people who were pros, who can't coach their way out of a paper bag, can't lay a straight line with cones, right. There's people with an A license. There's people without licensing to your point. There's people with accents who can coach and can't coach. It's all over this place.
Speaker 2:How do you lay a straight line with cones? I'll tell you how I do it after you. Tell you how you do it.
Speaker 5:I walk backwards.
Speaker 2:I walk backwards and a little spin on the cone. You got to spin the cone so it drops straight. What? Do you do.
Speaker 5:Doug, you look like somebody who doesn't spin your cones.
Speaker 4:I am OCD about my field setup, so I use the lines on the field to walk off and make sure stuff is straight, and it is maddening to me when I go to a session that stuff isn't straight. But I concede that you don't necessarily have to have straight cone lines to be good at what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Most important line in any activity, most important line in any activity. I'm just going to say there usually A punch line there, usually there you go, there you go, there you go. That's some improv from Ash almost there. You need a restraining line in most activities, I think, or an offsides line.
Speaker 4:That's philosophical Christian.
Speaker 2:It is, I'm just sharing.
Speaker 4:That's Christian's philosophy.
Speaker 5:Did you say sides or sides, once you have direction.
Speaker 2:You pretty much need an offsides line, otherwise you're missing a major part of the game. But now we're going into philosophy.
Speaker 5:Are you putting an S on the end of that?
Speaker 4:I know, I think it's just offside. There's no offsides.
Speaker 5:Listen, I know you have a doctorate in law, but let me tell you it's just offside.
Speaker 2:It's called a jurist doctorate.
Speaker 5:See how would I know? I don't have one. I.
Speaker 4:I'm actually on a crusade to stop the word offsides.
Speaker 2:Hey, I will join you on that you know, as long as you guys are fighting the important fights, I sleep well at night, because these are the things that change things.
Speaker 5:You keep using X's and O's, we'll keep one step at a time.
Speaker 1:Christian, one offside at a time, part of that crusade. Please have them drop the S when they spell it. Let alone.
Speaker 4:say it, yes, in written and spoken word. It is only offside Without that deep intellectual take.
Speaker 1:I mean, this show has got nothing going on.
Speaker 2:I always love it when we get a little Dean Linky aphorism. All right, what do we got for Bracken Brandbusters?
Speaker 1:We will answer that question after one final break. It's the October 23rd edition of Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast. Stay with us.
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Speaker 1:For the athletes who give everything, nothing beats Gatorade the studied, tested and proven fuel of the ECNL final segment, october 23rd edition. Uh, breaking the line, the ECNL podcast and that means Bracken's brain buster is brain buster. Two weeks ago about shoes, we got a few comments on that. Before we hear from Doug Bracken on this week's Bracken Brain Buster.
Speaker 4:All right.
Speaker 2:He's got to improve from last week.
Speaker 4:I mean, you know, I like to rightly, I like to quite rightly criticized by Dean. I like to mix it up. The Bracken Brain Buster question is only for my entertainment. Not, I don't really care what Dean thinks at all.
Speaker 2:This is that user customer experience mentality that Doug's bringing to the show.
Speaker 4:That's right, my bracken brain buster today. It's not really a brain buster, but I think we're obviously on this podcast, starting to connect more with the people, and so the people may want to hear our opinions about certain things. So today's question I'm going to go to dean first, because he hasn't gone first in a while. Latest tv show that you're into and why?
Speaker 1:that's a good one, my wife and I binge watch.
Speaker 2:There it is.
Speaker 1:We knew it was coming at six don't do tv without my wife, so you guys can pile on.
Speaker 4:It's a relation to TV. Come on, dude.
Speaker 2:Just admit, you and your wife are watching Golden.
Speaker 4:Bachelor, do you buy your shoes without your wife? No, is your wife.
Speaker 2:Doug to be fair. That's just smart, that's just smart.
Speaker 4:Depends on your wife's taste in shoes, I guess.
Speaker 1:I'm going to need your help, vince Vaughn. I'm a big Vince Vaughn fan and we just started I think it's called Monkey and Me. Bad Monkey, bad Monkey, love it, love Vince Vaughn. It's funny and it's the perfect show for me to wind down after a big day. It a big day. It's a good show, really good.
Speaker 4:It's on Apple TV. Bad monkey Pretty good. Never heard of it. I like it.
Speaker 5:Ashley, you haven't really been watching anything because you haven't had any power, but if you were to have power, if I had power, I'm not watching anything new. I'm going down all of the old Survivor seasons right now and let me tell you what a show. Christian, stop shaking your head. I was basically living like survivor for the last week, so here we go here, christian only likes the bracken brain buster if he likes it.
Speaker 4:If he doesn't like your response and he doesn't like the question, so survivor. What's great about it for you?
Speaker 5:I just like the competition and like how, like you know, there's. It is savage yeah, I like the fact that jeff probst says like the same seven things over and over. Didn't he get?
Speaker 4:married to one of the contestants.
Speaker 5:I believe they dated okay I don't think he ever married her, but that was long after a lot of useless knowledge you guys are sharing right now listen, mr offsides christian. You're offsides with that comment yeah, he's been watching mormon wives or something like that on hulu. I'm sure I can say so many things.
Speaker 4:All right, I'm gonna answer I'm gonna give you.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna give you a sure latest here and I'm gonna answer like with 17 shows, because you know I never want to be just tied down so I just finished he only said one, I know, but that's the exception proves the rule. I just finished seal team series finale. That was on, I think a couple weeks ago. That is an awesome show. We, my wife and I, watched that like from season two or so on, really enjoyed that we are also go ahead.
Speaker 4:What platform would I?
Speaker 2:uh, that'd be on paramount plus paramount, plus got it we are in the middle right now binging billions the show that I think was on showtime but we also got on prime so we're doing some advertisement here. But yeah, billions is like racked our brains a few times about the conniving manipulation of the rich people of the world. So those are the two we're pounding through right now but, like I said, seal team's done. That was a sad, sad moment.
Speaker 4:I started billions on Jason Kutney's request, kind of recommendation that he gave us voice. Commissioner, I'm struggling through it.
Speaker 2:Well, it's very sophisticated, doug. You got to dig in a little bit. Pay attention you can't be talking and having conversation. You're going to miss important parts.
Speaker 4:All right, I'll go with mine. Mine is Slow Horses. It's a show on Apple TV. It is British spy show. Very interesting, good acting.
Speaker 2:Set when, what time.
Speaker 4:It's current Modern day. Yeah, modern day. Yeah, modern day, modern day, all right um it's. Uh, I highly recommend it. It's very good gary oldman is the uh, the main actor.
Speaker 2:It's good I think gary old man just gets better with age he is actually unbelievably.
Speaker 4:Come on, man, see what I did there. I did, I tried to, I tried to gloss over it. All right, that's all we got for Bracken Brain Busters this week.
Speaker 1:That works for me. I hope it works for all of the people listening. We do want to hear from you.
Speaker 1:Feel free to submit questions and we'll address them. On Breaking the Line the ECNL podcast, featuring Christian Lavers, doug Bracken and Ashley Willis, my name is Dean Linke, my producer is Colin Thrash and we'll see you in two weeks for another edition of Breaking the Line the ECNL podcast. Thank you for listening to Breaking the Line the ECNL podcast and remember, if you have a question that you want answered on Breaking the Line the ECNL podcast, email us at info at theecnlcom.