Breaking the Line: The ECNL Podcast
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Breaking the Line: The ECNL Podcast
The Importance of Winning: ECNL Super Cup, Internationals vs. Homegrown Collegiate Players and ECNL Coaching Symposium | Ep. 109
Let us know the topics of interest to you!
The Breaking the Line team is back with their newest episode as we head into the holiday season and features a special guest, ECNL Boys Commissioner Jason Kutney.
Kutney and the crew open the episode with the inaugural ECNL Boys East Coast Super Cup, where eight teams from four East Coast conferences battled it out in Cary, NC to lift the Super Cup trophy. The team chats about how the Super Cup was formed, what the competition was like and the importance of winning, and also give a special shoutout to the champs, Florida Premier.
The ECNL Boys East Coast Super Cup ran along side the Men's College Cup, and the Breaking the Line team continue their discussion from last week regarding the pros and cons of the amount of international players within college soccer, and college soccer's place within the US' youth soccer developmental platforms. Does NCAA Soccer see itself as part of the developmental path for players? How do you balance winning vs. developing at the collegiate level? And how does NIL deals and the transfer portal affect how programs recruit and construct rosters? The BTL team tries to tackle these questions and more.
Also looking ahead, the lads look forward to the ECNL Coaching Symposium in Las Vegas in early February, discussing which speakers will be presenting at the symposium and who they are looking forward to the most.
Finally, with the new year on the horizon, this week's Bracken Buster features New Years Resolutions and what the whole team is looking forward to in 2025.
All that and more in the newest episode of Breaking the Line!
Welcome to the December 18 edition of Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast. As ECNL staff members Christian Lavers, doug Bracken, jason Kutney and Jacob Bourne recap an exciting weekend in St Louis for the girls and in Raleigh for the boys, including a deep dive into the Super Cup won by Florida Premier over UFA. It took penalty kicks and it was awesome. There's a quick look in at Vermont beating Marshall to win the NCAA College Cup. The crew breaks down the number of ECNL players that played in the game and takes more time on the subject of the amount of international players in the college game today. That discussion leads to a lot of positive side convos on the power of playing for something to win, on players playing overseas and so much more. There is one entire segment that covers every presenter at the February 2025 ECNL Symposium and AGM in Las Vegas and, of course, we all talk about our New Year's resolutions and New Year's Eve plans as part of Bracken's Brain Buster. All of that and more starts after this message from ECNL corporate partner Nike.
Speaker 2:Nike is a proud sponsor of ECNL. Nothing can stop what we can do together to bring positive change to our communities. You can't stop sport because hashtag. You can't stop our voices. Follow Nike on Instagram, facebook and Twitter.
Speaker 1:You heard the open, you heard the topics, you heard the people that are on the show with Christian Labors, including Doug Bracken, jason Kutney and Jacob Bourne. So let's go to work and turn it over to the CEO and president of the ECNL Christian Labors.
Speaker 3:All right guys. Well, welcome back to the show, mr Bracken.
Speaker 4:I'm here. Been a rough week last week down with the COVID, but I am here and I am quick trigger finger on my mute button in case I start coughing my head off Shows my commitment to the podcast. I guess it is.
Speaker 3:And speaking of mental toughness, ironically we got Mr Jason Cutney back on.
Speaker 5:Is that your mental toughness for having me on, or is that mine? I'm not sure what you're getting at.
Speaker 3:I think there's a lot of resilience being trained in a variety of ways.
Speaker 4:It's been a while since Jason joined us. That's by design of ways. It's been a while since Jason joined us. That's by design, of course, but now we have some topics that we felt like we needed to get him in here on, so this will be his once, every now and then appearance.
Speaker 3:There we go, and then Jacob Bourne also on here.
Speaker 6:Happy to be here, ready to go for another great week.
Speaker 3:Awesome. Well, it was a big weekend for the league, very busy, got a huge event in St Louis that had some weather complications, as you may expect in St Louis in December, although it also can be 65 degrees in St Louis in December and it can snow in Texas in February. So you know, I don't know what all that means about event site selection, but it's not an easy process, but that was a big, successful event. Election, but it's not an easy process, but that was a big, successful event. Lots of teams there, young teams, recruitable age group teams. And then we had the first boys super cup in raleigh, north carolina, where mr cutney was there to see eight clubs from four different conferences along the east coast do something really cool. As much as we always hate to give jason the mic, I think it's time to give jason the mic to talk a little bit about what the super cup was like what an introduction there.
Speaker 5:Um, what I learned from this past weekend with the super cup is that it's definitely initiative that has pretty strong legs to it. The response from the clubs, from the players, from the college scouts in attendance was a resounding yes. They, they loved it, they want more of it and for us it's it's our version of a uefa champions league, in some respects right. These are clubs that had performed very well across their age groups. We primarily looked at the u15 and older age groups from last year and we compiled the list of the the top eight overall performers from the east coast, breaking out those four conferences.
Speaker 3:So essentially Based on conference play alone, right.
Speaker 5:Conference play alone. Yeah, and that was ultimately what was last year, the Northeast Conference. We've now split that into two different conferences with the New England and North Atlantic, and then the Mid-Atlantic, the Southeast and Florida. So there was two clubs that represented each one of those four conferences at this event and we played an elite eight and it was cool because it was built into the visit Raleigh dot com showcase. The NCFC is known as it's been known for many years showcase, which was a great event. They did a really nice job of hosting that event.
Speaker 5:We were lucky enough to have one field carved out from that complex, the WRAL complex that we were able to dress up and make sure that it looked the part and it was great. It was just a great weekend of soccer. You know, for me to be able to sit down and watch high-level games all in one field is a lot different than the normal ECNL national event where you have 22 to 24 fields going on at any one time. But it was really enjoyable to sit down and watch the level of play that we had in front of us and watch teams really compete hard for a trophy. So I had a lot of blast. It was great.
Speaker 4:I know, jason, that we set this up kind of conceptually a club could take their U19 team, their U17 team or a mixture of players from different teams, different ECNL teams, in the club there. Did you find that most clubs just brought their 19s, or was there a smattering of younger players in there as well?
Speaker 5:Yeah, every club brought younger players, which was really cool, to your point. We did not require anything, so we allowed them to make this decision, you know, as they should, and they chose to bring in. The majority was U18-19s. Every club had at least like three or four U17 players and then a few of the clubs brought U16s as well, and that was really cool to see. You know, there were some young players on display out there that were holding their own. I think Pipeline had the most U16s. I think they actually had six players from the U16 team.
Speaker 5:That was an ECNL National Championship team, and deservedly so. There's some good players there, but it was really enjoyable to see the level never really dropped at any point throughout the weekend, I think until we got to Sunday late morning, I should say, with the final. Ufa was carrying some injuries coming into the event, also had a couple injuries in the first game, so they were down to just a couple of subs and until that last game went to extra time. They were amazing right, they just kind of held it together, very disciplined group. Jason Smith did a great job with them, but they made it all the way through the final round. There went to extra time went to PKs, but I don't think until that second half of the extra time that was maybe the first time I saw some heavy legs coming out. Otherwise these kids were really going at it for the full 90s plus.
Speaker 3:So first one of these events, quarter semifinal champion. We got another one on the West Coast coming in April. You think this has legs. I mean, we're trying to find more ways to have, I guess, for lack of a better word best versus best or a carrot incentivized competition. West Coast will be slightly different format, I think, with minigames, more for that event, and then we're planning we'll probably make an announcement in the symposium planning to add more to this platform for the 2025-6 season. But what was it, jason? It that that you thought was most unique?
Speaker 5:the one thing that came to me was from a college coach that was there. Uh, he, the first reaction he said was you can tell these games matter, you know and I think that was not that it was a light bulb moment by any means but when we go into these games, oftentimes we think of regular season games counting toward qualifications of playoffs. We consider national events more of a showcasing opportunity for players. We don't really feel what I felt this weekend until playoffs. So it was really interesting to feel that during the season and see just how much it meant for these boys to get out on the field and play for something. But from the opening whistle it just it sounded different, right, everything that you saw on the field.
Speaker 5:It was not a showcase game at all. These kids were going out there, they were leaving their foot on on tackles. It was high speed the entire time for us to have got, you know, someone like Dean Linky on the call of these games for the broadcast value, the signage all around the field. It felt like a mini professional game going on and the crowd kept building because of the sound and because of the atmosphere that was over there. So more and more college coaches and scouts, and the US national team scout was there the entire weekend, but it was really cool to just see and feel what the playoffs usually bring in just a small dose of it during the regular season.
Speaker 4:In your view? Why is this important for us and what is it about this event that makes it an important thing that we do?
Speaker 5:It's a body of work for the clubs and I think that was important. You know, when you go and you go through the regular season, you have your six ECLH groups each vying for an opportunity to move on to the post season. This is the first time we've looked at other than the club rankings, which is certainly, uh, you know, a feather in the cap by you know. By by no means is that not not important, but there's no competitive piece to that in the sense that these teams are going at it on the field and I I felt like the body of work and this came back from a number of the directors as well that I was speaking with. They enjoyed having these age groups contribute to one team and really making their quote-unquote I give Jay Howell all the credit for this but saying their varsity team, each one of these clubs had the ability to create a varsity team based upon the age groups that contributed to this body of work for their club the year prior and it really did feel like a uefa champions league game, right, it felt like that midweek, wednesday, thursday game in the champions league where you see these two powerhouse clubs coming at it, and for me to be able to sit back and watch the coaching that was on display throughout the weekend as well was was really important, because I don't always get a chance to see that.
Speaker 5:A lot of times at events, we're busy in the other details of managing the event and making sure that the flow and logistics is on pace to where it needs to be. But this time I sat back and actually watched these games, watched these coaches coach, and it was a chess match and that's what you would expect. It felt like a college game. Big kudos to Gary Butte and the guys at NCFC and Brian Bachelder that got us the high-level referees that we had as well. We had a lot of collegiate referees doing these games and it just felt important which was great.
Speaker 3:It's interesting as you say this, because I think anybody who's coaching knows how much winning is such a carrot for kids at every single age.
Speaker 3:It's an argument and a debate that can be overly philosophical and has gone on forever, but I think a few years ago there was a strong push that just de-emphasized winning in almost every way and it didn't feel right coaching, it didn't feel right watching. And again, this is not to say that the eight years old has a World Cup, but there is a different field, there's a different environment. There's a different environment. There's a different excitement, there's a different pressure when kids are really going at it and you can tell that they want to be competitively successful. That, I think, is really cool. And I think the other piece to this that is on top of the club body work piece is just providing another thing that I don't want to call it short term because it's qualified from the. You qualify from performance the year before, but having additional trophies to win for lack of a better word or things that sort of spike interest, spike enthusiasm, spike focus, I think it's a really important thing to add into the calendar.
Speaker 5:The trophy was beautiful, first and foremost. So the tip of the cap to Laura Hubbard and the team that produced that I mean the trophy was really impressive, and so when you saw it on display as you were walking out and Blaine Fink did a really good job of making sure that when these players were lining up for the international walkout, they were walking right past the beautiful trophy and the medals, and so I think that always gets you going and has that buzz. But you know, I agree, I believe that developing a winning mindset is the most important part of youth development. That's, that's my personal opinion, you know. And so winning and winning versus the winning mindset can be looked at differently, but I believe in winning. I believe that winning is a big part of developing young players, and what we saw this weekend was exactly that.
Speaker 5:I had a chance to sit in and listen to Nathan Bender talk to Florida Premier before their first game on the Friday, and Florida Premier went on to win the East Coast Super Cup. So congratulations to them. But the way he was speaking to these boys, he was basically telling them that they had to just go into this game like animals. They had to go into this thing with the purpose of winning this game, and that was so true throughout the weekend for all these teams. But every time there was that whistle blown before a game, that first opening whistle of the game, you just felt the boys give that like let's go, it's time to win this game, and there's something to that. You don't always feel that in the middle of the season, and so for us to feel that was really impressive.
Speaker 3:And I'll add to that because so often in these debates people try and oversimplify the issue and they say, oh well, if winning, if there's people that try quote, unquote too hard to win at young age groups, then let's totally eliminate winning from the equation. And you know, I used to compare it to like it's really easy to build out of the back when there is no pressure or when there's one person that's in the front line and everybody's sitting off, and then people get a false sense of accomplishment or a false sense of learning right. And really the challenge is to learn how to and I'm using one example obviously play out of a back with decisions based on risk and based on pressure and then, under pressure, being able to still do it in certain scenarios. And to me that's the same argument when it comes to winning. You miss a whole lot of the point when you just flip it completely off, just like you'd miss a whole lot of the point if you said this is the only thing that matters through youth soccer is the competitive result at the end.
Speaker 3:It's way more nuanced and I think for one. We should be providing platforms for clubs to compete and win and we should trust that the clubs and the coaches and the directors know how to balance these various things and there are, just like there's, days in games where the learning and the decision making sort of reflection is the most important thing, and there's days that you say, hey, today we're going to try and perform all of this in a way where the three points at the end are the most important yeah, we've reached a point in this country, unfortunately, where I think the the winning of contracts became more important to players versus the winning of games.
Speaker 5:And you know, there was a point where I had a conversation a few years ago with a coach and I basically said, look, if you went around to every 16 and 17 year old player in this country right now and asked them where all the US national team players play internationally, they would tell you. If you ask them who won MLS last year, they wouldn't know. Tell you, if you ask them who won MLS last year, they wouldn't know. And that's a problem in our country, right? Because we are de-emphasizing winning and we're looking at winning contracts or winning NIL deals or winning more followers on Instagram, much more than we are about winning games and winning in life.
Speaker 5:And I think when you get to the point where your country then doesn't go as far as you would hope in the World Cup or doesn't qualify for the Olympics, or dot, dot, dot, you have to look back at the early roots of that. Right, there's a cause, there's a reaction to that, and so the more we de-emphasize winning, the more we'll lose, right? And I think when you look at that from a standpoint of how you address that philosophically and the way you train and the way you develop players for games. It doesn't mean you have to focus on that one big, strong player that you launch the ball to, that wins all your games for you and the rest of the team doesn't play. But there does mean a value to having a winning mentality and focusing on the pragmatic piece of the game, to understand when in the game, you build out, when in the game, you play through the midfield, when you play over the top, because there are values to how you develop and express that winning mentality in the way you play.
Speaker 4:To both your points and I think the point we've made here many times is that it's not black or white, it's not win or not win, or try to win or not try to win. It's much more nuanced. And you know, I think these types of things like the Super Cup, these kind of in-season opportunities to put yourself to the test against the other you know clubs that qualified really is a really unique opportunity. I think it's super important, is really hard, uh, and and everybody here on this call is coached in in league, so we know that over the course of the year just playing those, you know conference games, you know, week in, week out, it's you know, we understand it because we're, you know, adults and we've been through it, but the kids don't necessarily always connect with that fully. And so to add these little carrots or these little opportunities in and we talked about the League Cup, american players in college soccer and the all-American teams came out today, the United Soccer Coaches all-American teams or came out a couple days ago and the list of players.
Speaker 3:It looks I mean it looks like it's a map from all over the world, you know, and there's very, very few Americans listed on the college all American men's teams I think I'm the first team here I'm looking at a United soccer coaches there's two, two American players out of the 11. You got players from the Netherlands, iceland, norway, nigeria, france, spain, england and Brazil all represented in that. I mean, I'm sure they're all fantastic players. Don't get me, get me wrong on that. But when we talk about the learning learning how to win, learning how to compete the other piece to that is you have to have opportunity, right, you have to have opportunity to get on the field. Otherwise, who are we providing this for?
Speaker 4:By the way, I'll add to that first year ever MLS best 11, no Americans. So it was all international players on the MLS best 11 this year.
Speaker 3:It's a really interesting dynamic, I think, when we look at that and we talked before about some of the restrictions there were in Germany to support the development of the domestic player Some of the stuff within the Champions League that tries to at least I don't think it was tied to country but tied to club-trained players Got more of this as well. I mean, according to our research, the Premier League has to have at least eight out of 25 players who played in the English or Welsh youth system for three years. So it's very similar to UEFA. And there's other countries that are doing that as well. Even League One in France, a maximum of four non-EU players allowed. So that's not mandating French players, for example, but it is restricting scope at least a little bit to Europe.
Speaker 3:And again, this is not about shutting things out, but I think it's about developing the domestic game and providing the opportunity for the domestic game to the degree it's behind other countries to catch up.
Speaker 3:But to Jason's point, to ensure that the top reflection of the domestic game is the national team is a more competitive team and when you look in 2026 and the World Cup coming here, I mean it's a huge opportunity for this country and if the team does really well, you're going to see a significant growth in the game in the in the United States, I think.
Speaker 3:Generally when a World Cup is hosted, you see a boost of about 10 percent in registered players in the country that that hosts the World Cup. I vaguely remember that statistic somewhere in the country that hosts the World Cup. I vaguely remember that statistic somewhere. But I think you guys would agree if our team and I'm not saying this is the case, but if they were to go out in the group stage at home, which has never happened until the last World Cup versus get to the semifinal, you have a significant difference in the impact it'll have on the American interest in the event and the coverage of the event and then ultimately, I would argue, the inspiration it provides to the young kids who are watching.
Speaker 4:It's about opportunity. To your point, we need to be creating as many opportunities as we possibly can. As many opportunities as we possibly can, whether that's through some quota system at these different levels, just important.
Speaker 1:Speaking of quotas and numbers, two weeks ago in the podcast we talked about the number of international players at the D1 level. When we return, christian and the gang will have some numbers at D2 and other levels as well. It's Breaking the Line. The ECNL podcast kind of a happy holidays edition and we'll have more after this.
Speaker 2:Soccercom is proud to partner with the ECNL to support the continued development of soccer in the US at the highest levels the continued development of soccer in the US at the highest levels. We've been delivering quality soccer equipment and apparel to players, fans and coaches since 1984. Living and breathing the beautiful game ourselves. Our goal at Soccercom is to inspire you to play better, cheer louder and have more fun. Visit Soccercom today to check out our unmatched selection of gear, expert advice and stories of greatness at every level of the game.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to the December 18 edition of Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast, with Christian Lavers, doug Bracken and Jason Cutney, jacob Bourne also playing a key role. I'm Dean Linke. When we took a break, we mentioned that last week we talked about the number of international players at the D1 level. Christian Lavers starts segment two talking about the number of international players at D2, d3, and other levels as well. Take it away, christian.
Speaker 3:Looking at the stats, we talked about D1 last episode. In D2, we have similar numbers. I think the final four here in D2 was Charleston, csu, playbillow, lynn University, mckendree, and you have CSU Pueblo. That had 14 internationals, was the smallest number. And then Charleston in West Virginia had 38 internationals on a roster of 56 players, which that I get your mind around. Having a 56 player roster, I've never heard of that in my life. And it's similar when you go down into D3, a little bit smaller numbers Middlebury, amherst, washington and Lee and Connecticut College, washington and Lee with three internationals and as the smallest, amherst with 10 as the highest, a significant number of ECNL players in the D3 championship game between Washington and Connecticut and then a decent amount in D2 as well. Jason, you got any thoughts on that topic Because you weren't on when we talked about it last week.
Speaker 5:Yeah, you know, look, I played Division I and had international teammates, just like, you know, a lot of other people, yourself included, and I think that for me, it's not necessarily the issue of having international players. I think the issue is having so many to the point where the American players are the extreme minority within the group and that is a big problem. But when you exacerbate that issue with the transfer portal, which to me is a disaster but when you add the transfer portal to this and then you look at the fact that there's so many first year upperclassmen, which means you've got 22, 23 year olds coming from overseas to play as college players, many of which have pro experience, right, and these are not vetted situations, deeply vetted enough. So if you have a team of 22 and 23-year-olds men that have played professionally, you know, I think there's a player in Vermont that was in the UEFA Nations League last year with like five or six caps. So and no offense, no disrespect to that player, vermont for bringing that player in, it's the NCAA right. You have to step in at some point and control this, because it is out of control now.
Speaker 5:And when you look at the opportunities for young American players, I think what we're seeing, in my view of it, is there's a FOMO now that's been established in the men's game, that they just fear if they don't stack their team with international, older players they won't be able to win, and that's not the case, right.
Speaker 5:But when you look at a program like Georgetown and Brian Weiss has done a great job of this for years of having all American players that's the other side of the extreme, of course, but he's doing quite well every year with his players also, and guys like Mike Baps at Davidson and these programs are continuing to do this with American players I'm not a big person, the person that's proposing you can't have international players by any means.
Speaker 5:I just feel that we need some restrictions on the number of international players, but then also a cap on the age of these players that are coming across and joining these programs that have professional experience overseas. Because the NCAA men's soccer is not professional soccer, right. It is a pathway to help prepare players for the professional game and I do think there's structural changes that can help that. Ie what Sasha and others have brought to the table with an expanded season, but I don't think it needs to be the breeding ground for international 22 and 23 year old pros to come to America and take the place of young players coming up through the game.
Speaker 4:Do you think that the college game, the larger college game, believes that they're part of the development process in this country? Because that's my question. I'm not. I'm not sure they do my question.
Speaker 3:I'm not.
Speaker 3:I'm not sure they do.
Speaker 3:Well, to your point, doug, I mean college soccer, just like high school soccer, has been an area that is completely outside the purview of of us soccer and the federation and sort of the rest of the soccer system, which all sort of feeds into that at some, at some level or not, and that may be changing in the coming year.
Speaker 3:In the coming years with all these changes of nil, the athletic department, funding, and I know there are discussions that are going on with us soccer and within us soccer about an involvement in the collegiate game for the first time, which may actually help some of this, both structurally, in terms of having a season that is more developmentally focused, of a fall and a spring and less, less game density, uh, and also some consideration because I think we agree with you, jason, adding, adding some top level international players into the game is a good thing at some point, though yet we have to recognize if college soccer is part of the american talent development system, there needs to have some american talent in the system to continue to grow yeah, I mean that restriction is important to put in, because that to me, yes, that's the hitting the nail on the head there.
Speaker 5:The mix of internationals into the american game is america, right, that's a great thing. I don't think there's anything. There's no one that's going to challenge that, or at least I'm not going to challenge that. I think it's a great thing and if you're good enough, you should be given those opportunities. But you also have to respect the american youth system and these players coming up in america to give them a chance to play. And if you just continue down this path that we're on right now between the portal and the international grab, it just unfortunately limits the opportunities for these young players and it blocks them out well and, to be fair, you see this also with respect to pro soccer.
Speaker 3:In almost every country in the world where a manager given a choice between signing a proven professional or giving a debut or opportunity to a young talent, most people are going to choose to sign the proven professional because their job's on the line. On the line and to, I think, doug's point, the one thing that can push back on that fairly natural tendency is some requirement to say you can do that to a point, but there also needs to be opportunity for the young talent. So we're talking about it from the youth to college perspective, but it is a challenge and balance that every pro manager in the world will not be unfamiliar with.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think it depends on the club. But yeah, certainly at the higher levels. Like you know, I think I heard a number of them make no bones about it. They're going to take that experienced player and you know, my biggest question is, you know, does college soccer identify as part of our development system? You know, and maybe it is by default at some level, because a great majority of kids who are playing youth at the youth level move on to that level. But I'm not sure I would agree that they do identify that way and therefore they don't care.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean then also just look at sort of how it fits there's. There's this weird relationship between college and pro soccer right now, in terms of which kids skip college soccer. Do the pro teams want kids looking at college soccer, um, and if so, do they go there for a year or two? So that sort of creates a strange relationship within it. And then, if you do look at the incentives again because if you're in any other industry they'll tell you to look at the incentives and you'll understand the behavior no college soccer coaches are being rewarded or paid for development. You know, if it's not measured by wins.
Speaker 5:And it's hard for those coaches because many of them right now are realizing that they have lost, or will lose 10 to 50 to 80 percent of their players into the portal every year, and so when you're trying to restock, that's very difficult.
Speaker 5:If you come into a season knowing that you are having to replace one or two, versus having to replace eight or nine, that makes a big difference, and so there's definitely a new shift in that approach that they want to be able to win one year at a time, and it started with college basketball. We've seen that, where players will come in for a couple of years and use it as a prep for the NBA, but those players, generally speaking, are moving on to the NBA. We're not seeing this number of college soccer players moving into the pro game, and that's a concern. I think we have to do a better job in this country of looking at NCAA as a four-year process of development for most, and what's happening now is the transfer portal is opening up so many eyes for these kids to look elsewhere at all times rather than staying putting their head down and working a little bit harder to get playing time or opportunities at their current school, and that's that rolls up to parents as well, and we know that.
Speaker 4:And so you, you would argue that structurally, structurally, the way college soccer is structured currently, it's not really conducive to development. I mean, it's short. The window's short short. You're playing a lot of games in a short period of time, then you have shut down, you have a spring season, that is basically kind of a joke, right, right, it's a joke, right so. So structurally you're already up against it, right? Because it doesn't. It's not structured in a way that would warrant development or put your head down and working harder.
Speaker 5:Yeah, there's a lot of college programs that do a great job. I mean they create atmospheres that really do. They run great training sessions. They run great programs. Chris Grassi at Marshall is a fan.
Speaker 3:I don't think we're arguing any of that Totally. You can only work within the constraints of the system you're in. We're talking about the system and you know. If I take it a slightly tangential level, I ideas, at least because they're in the same building. One is operating with tens of millions of dollars and one is operating with tens of thousands of dollars. But I see college football turning into to your point with respect to the transfer portal, where you're going to have a group of colleges that get young kids and develop them and then they leave. Get young kids and develop them and then they leave and they go to the big colleges for their junior or senior season, because the big colleges are just going to take them in the portal and pay them more. And I could see a similar thing happening in other sports, including college soccer.
Speaker 4:If there's not changes to this whole process and how the, how the portal works and how nil works, well, they might not even develop them because a young talented player who may need time to cut his teeth to get there may not even be interested in taking that time when he can just go elsewhere, right to some other promise or whatever. I mean it's a wonky kind of system that we have. Wonky kind of system that we have. To me these guys are largely students who are playing soccer, rather than soccer players who happen to be students. I don't think I agree with that.
Speaker 4:In football I would say they're football players who happen to be students. But probably in soccer the majority of these guys are students who happen to play soccer, I would say at the pro level. You know, in our country, you know what are we doing there to help our American players develop and get better? Because to me they have just as much, if not a greater, responsibility to that cause than college. Honestly, I mean in theory, they would identify the top talent, the most talented players around our country and have the ability to bring that player into that environment.
Speaker 3:On that note, doug, you go back and you look and we have the data and the stats from pro associations all over the world this idea of identifying this young, 13, 14-year-old talent, investing in them to become a pro. It's so rare, the chances of you getting it right are so low that you basically invest a lot of money in players that you don't end up getting any sort of return if I put that word in terms of economic return from a signing them and then having them contribute to the first team. And I think, think that's one reason, if you look back, you'd probably have a similar argument in other sports. And if again we use college football as an example, you know, if you could think of the Patriots or the Packers signing a 13 year old to develop them. It's probably not going to go very well, right, there's a better system for that kid to go along and eventually the kid you thought was going to be the star at 13, who 90, whatever percent of the time, is not right.
Speaker 3:It just speaks to the need and importance, probably, of a longer development pathway and closer discussions, relationships and processes between all of the entities involved in that player's journey. You know, and obviously, and obviously, first and foremost is the player and family. But you have the youth club, then you have the player that goes to the next youth club or the higher level youth club, then you have potentially the college, you have potentially a lower level pro and a higher level pro. You have the bouncing back in between and all the different myriad pathways that a player could go on. Right now I guess you could say there's just not a lot of coherency in terms of something guiding that path.
Speaker 4:Totally agree. It's pretty disconnected, disjointed, yeah, I would say that's right.
Speaker 3:Well, I don't know, we don't have any solutions. Maybe we can have people who send us solutions to info at theecnlcom. Jay, do you want to wrap this one up?
Speaker 5:We started talking about Super Cup and I think what we're trying to do is just create a new platform that stimulates competitive nature amongst the players in our league in a new way, right. So it's similar to League Cup, which is becoming a big thing on the girls' side and has done well to drop in that competitive piece within the regular season. Super cup is that for us, and the reason we're doing it, is because we want to just create more opportunities for players to compete at a high level and I think when we do that then you can roll that up from youth clubs up to the collegiate, up to the pro. But you know, as we've dived into this conversation of the, the international piece within american college athletics, you know we're looking at this more from the opportunities perspective for young players. We're not looking at it in a point where it's like this is bad for the game, it's not bad for the game, it's just bad for american opportunities for these young players and we want those opportunities because ultimately we want a better national team that can go on and win a World Cup, right, and that's the reason we're all here. But I think what we do from a from a youth perspective, especially when you look at it through the lens of pro.
Speaker 5:We have to be really careful in this country not to diminish the idea that winning is important. We have to do a lot in this country to make sure that we understand earning a contract or a big shoe deal or NIL deal is not more important than developing the characteristics that you need to be successful in soccer and in life. And I think what we're seeing with things like the transfer portal, with things like the confusion in the pro system and how to make it as a pro, and you know all these quote unquote pro pathways that all of a sudden exist in this country. It's a lot of smoke and mirrors and what we're teaching young players is that they don't have to work that hard. They just have to look a different direction and I think, with us, what we, what I saw in the super cup, was eight clubs that came together all into one venue that wanted to win something, and those for those three days it was the purest form of competition.
Speaker 5:These kids wanted to win a and for those three days it was the purest form of competition. These kids wanted to win a trophy and to see the coaches at their best to see the players at their best, the referees at their best. It forced our staff to be at our best to make sure that it was the best overall atmosphere. If everyone in this country looks at things that way each day, and that goes down to the coaches coaching at the grassroots level, I think we'll be better off. But at the top, at that college and pro side, we do need to create more realistic opportunities for young American players. I think that's a key need in this country and right now I'm honestly, for the first time, I'm really worried that we're just out of control and need to kind of reel that in at some point.
Speaker 3:I'll add a take on that, because I think the reason that we're at this spot is you have these different platforms. You have pro soccer, you have college soccer, you have youth soccer. Those are the three we predominantly are talking about. You have nuances and levels and layers within them. High school soccer is there to some degree as well, and you have people that have strong opinions and incentives to say what is best for the player and the people around the player the family, especially in youth soccer, and making this platform the best it could be. What we try and do is make this platform the best it could be in supporting the journey of a youth soccer player and the people around them, some of whom will go on to be pros, most of whom will go on to be in a college player, hopefully, but we do that in the way we see that best.
Speaker 3:Pro soccer has similar ideas of what they want to see an upcoming talent and what that talent needs to do and how to get there and how they see that through a pro lens. College soccer sees it through a different lens. I think really what you need and I've said this before is you need a table where all those people are sitting and talking and it's really a form of nation building and saying how do we do this right, knowing that there are people that know a lot more in certain areas than others and you need to take into account all of those areas to create a more logical, cohesive pathway and platform. Without that table, we all just continue to keep doing what we think is good. I think everybody's trying to do what they think is good and I think the fact that everybody's trying to do something is a good thing that has some not so good outcomes sometimes when you talk about where those edges meet 100%.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's get everybody together and figure it out. We need a Philadelphia 1776 moment, is what you're saying.
Speaker 4:Everybody wears shadow box umbra shorts and we get in there and we get it done.
Speaker 3:That's a question. I mean, which founding father would Jason Kutney be?
Speaker 4:It seems very Abraham Lincoln to me.
Speaker 3:You think so, he does you could see him with that big hat on.
Speaker 6:I can see that. Are we considering Abraham Lincoln, who was president from 1861 to 1865, to be a founding father?
Speaker 4:I apologize, I should have leave it to Jacob to make the proper corrections.
Speaker 3:No, I just said that. I look at Jason and I go Abraham Lincoln. You think Abraham Lincoln, all right, all right, not John Adams. No, not John Hancock. I would go with John Hancock. Supposedly, you know a young guy very confident, you know, sometimes too confident To me that's, if we're going to pick founding father, that's going to be Jason Kutney.
Speaker 5:I'm pretty sure it was.
Speaker 4:Herbie Hancock. Herbie Hancock yes, big shout out to Laura Hubbard. I think Jason already said it. The trophy that we created for this event was amazing. She did a great job on that, amy Brack and Andrew Wheeler and the brand team made it sharp both online and on site. And then blaine, uh think, who's our, uh, who's our commissioner of events? Obviously getting there and making sure we pulled this thing off, and in fairly short, short order. You know, sometimes we don't say enough how, how great our team is and just shout out to those guys and don't, and don't forget dean linky, the voice of the ecml some people call it the big 10 network.
Speaker 5:I just refer to him as the voice of the ecml, but he uh came through.
Speaker 3:This is an appropriate december, christmas, gratitude, uh, podcast. We're throwing the love around and and I, I, I guess I have to throw something back at jason, because a lot of this concept came, came from you, so, uh, kudos on that as well every once in a while, I like to do something good like how long have you been here now?
Speaker 5:like five years, let's what's the next topic that we're talking about? First, it's first good idea time for another break.
Speaker 1:when we come back, christian labors and company will talk about the ECNL Symposium which will be in February and all of the key presenters. Once again, it is a who's who of key people in soccer that after this message from yet another ECNL corporate partner.
Speaker 2:From athletes just starting to turn heads to some of the best athletes to ever play their games, Gatorade shows that they are the proven fuel of the best. For the athletes who give everything, nothing beats Gatorade, the studied, tested and proven fuel of the ECNL.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to Segment 3, the December 18 edition of Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast. That goes without saying. Happy holidays to each and every one of you. I certainly hope you have a safe holiday season as well. Turning back over to Christian Labors, as he's going to dive into the ECNL Symposium and AGM, breaking down all of the amazing presenters, take it away, christian.
Speaker 3:When we get back I mean soccer world, youth soccer, college soccer kind of slows down for the Christmas break Get back into some major showcases in early January. Everybody's on the road down into the Sunshine State where we're going to have a bunch of ECNL Regional League Boys Girls showcases that are awesome, as always. And then we get to our symposium, which will be very early February, turned into an awesome event, one of the biggest, probably the biggest in terms of youth soccer. Which is why we actually started doing our AGM and symposium is when we said we need something that's focused purely on clubs and what happens in club soccer. Back to our other point to help club soccer and clubs and the people there get better.
Speaker 3:February 4-5, we'll go through some of the people here that are going to be presenting and maybe get some reactions to them from you guys. So we've got some regulars Kerry Boley and Drew Watson, our advisors in technical advisor Kerry Boley, medical advisor Drew Watson. They're going to be presenting their kind of regulars at this point. I mean they've been on the podcast a bunch of times. What are you looking forward to from those guys?
Speaker 4:I always like Kerry's perspective because he really looks at things from that methodology perspective, which I think is always very interesting. Obviously Drew really smart, uses a lot of big words, formulas and whatnot to describe things, which is tough for Jason to digest, but the rest of us really enjoy it.
Speaker 5:I personally like to spend time with Dr Drew because he tells funny stories about you, christian. This is not in front of the crowd at the AGM symposium Not yet, not yet. You guys share stories about you, christian. This is not in front of the crowd at the AGM symposium Not yet, not yet. He does share stories that make me laugh quite a bit about you and what you were years ago.
Speaker 3:What I will say is we'll have some announcements, I think, on the platform that Drew does for us, because one of the things we're trying to do as a league, beyond the on-field soccer stuff, is do things that make a difference in the sport more broadly and more holistically, and we'll have some exciting information about that with drew anson dorrance coming into his first symposium with us obviously just retired this year, beginning of the year, sort of sleight of hand and retires and installs damon nahas who goes on and wins the national championship and gets the interim tag removed. If I remember correctly, mr Dorrance did that with a U S soccer federation coach as well A few years back. Yeah, it'd be Tony, tony DeChico. Yeah, yeah, almost exact, exact set of procedures. But obviously not enough can be said about what Anson's done in college soccer Unbelievably smart guy with respect to psychology and leadership. What are you guys looking forward to from Anson?
Speaker 4:I just want to see where his mind is going these days, right, Because he always has something that will absolutely throw you for a little bit of a loop and make you think so to your point, really smart guy. I would just love to hear what he's kind of ruminating on these days, and I think it'll be especially interesting, given you know he's retired and stepped away and you know kind of what, what he sees his role moving forward.
Speaker 3:Not that he's ever been filtered, but he would be even more unfiltered.
Speaker 4:Yes, he is not afraid.
Speaker 5:Yeah, anson. I had a chance to get to know Anson years ago and he became a good friend of mine in the game and I think the coolest thing about Anson over the years is that he has always really focused upon how to take winning and build it into the development of young players on the female side, especially, as we've all seen. He's been very successful at that, for sure. But I think the the cool thing about when you're a coach and you get to listen to a coach like that is how he creates. You know it's like the pep effect, and maybe not in this recent form which everyone likes to, you know, throw stuff's like the Pep Guardiola effect, and maybe not in this recent form which everyone likes to. You know, throw stuff at Pep now.
Speaker 5:But the culture that he created, that Anton created, was a winning culture and no one can debate that right. And so I think the ability to create a culture like that amongst the team just hearing some of those stories and how he did that and that competitive cauldron, you know hearing those stories, but in real time from the voice, and how he's going to, to Doug's point, how he's going to take that now into the next step of what he's going to focus on is going to be really, really important and impactful. And I'm happy for Damon. You know Damon's a good guy, good coach, and I shout out to him for for an unbelievable season there. And you know, I don't think with the number of players that left to go pro from Carolina, which I I think was like nine or 10, maybe 11 after last season, and then there was transfers as well for those girls that stayed around and to do what they did and win a national championship was really impressive this year. So big shout out to Damon on that one.
Speaker 4:Yeah, ditto, ditto. Shout out to Damon.
Speaker 3:Unbelievable. Next guy we got, jeremy Boone. Has a company called Winning Leader. He's a leadership coach, does a lot of work in sport and a variety of different sports. Some work outside of that, considered one of the world's experts in axiology, which is the science of human value and decision making.
Speaker 5:I think that's throwing axes. I think you're wrong. I think that's just the ability to throw axes.
Speaker 3:I actually had to look that up when he first said that to me and say wait a minute, what are you talking about? Jacob can back check me, but I'm pretty sure I'm right. So, huge, high energy guy, really interested to see. He's another guy that I think most people probably uh won't, won't know uh, which is really cool because we're going to give the opportunity for him to reach a whole new set of coaches and for a whole new set of coaches to learn from him. So any thoughts on Mr Boone?
Speaker 4:I think you're talking to a room of people who are by default, leaders, and anytime you can get that perspective, I think it's really valuable. You know, you can always connect it to soccer or sport or whatever but just having that outside kind of perspective on leadership and thought and ideas because primarily that's what we're all kind of doing at this point and a large number of the people in that room will be in the same boat. So I think it'll be super interesting to hear that, that piece from him.
Speaker 5:one of the beautiful things about the coaching symposium and this goes back years before when I was, uh, just a club director within the league. It's the types of presentations that are outside the lines of the field that were always super valuable and things that I always extracted the most from, and so the the, the sports psych side, the leadership side to me and even you know Dr Drew in many respects on the medical side but those things that are outside the X's and O's of the game, the outside of the game in general, and bigger concepts about leadership and and how to lead and how to win through leading, those things have been really really impactful and I'm super excited for this presentation. These are the ones that really kind of open the brain in a new way yeah, and we should give a shout out.
Speaker 3:Gary butte was the one who connected us with, uh jeremy boone. They go back uh a ways. You just spoke at the ncfc 50th anniversary celebration for that club, but showing the webs of relationships growing across the lid. And then that actually is a nice segue to Eric Potterat, who is a US Navy commander. Actually, and speaking of webs of relationships, I got in contact with him through Ryan Hawk, who was one of the speakers at our symposium a couple of years ago, did an unbelievable job. But Eric Potterat's a high performance sport and clinical psychologist, retired us navy commander. One of the probably exciting things that everybody gets uh pumped about is he was the psychologist for the us navy seals, so he's written a book. He's worked across a variety of different uh sporting organizations as well. I'm gonna have a different background to your point, jason, because he's coming out of the military from his professional background, but should be a really interesting topic.
Speaker 5:I don't think it gets much more elite than the Navy SEALs, and so anything that we can extract in terms of knowledge from an individual like that, I'm all open to that.
Speaker 4:A lot of parallels, although parallels, although you know, sport is definitely not the military. There's a little different, uh, level of you know, commitment and that goes with the military, but I, I would, I always love the parallels and and how you can take those. And again to jason's point, doesn't get much more elite than the, than the seals then, uh, we got peter kenyon.
Speaker 3:This is a surprise, I, to a lot of people for us to have a sports executive with his pedigree. He was the former CEO of both Manchester United and from 1997 to 2002, he worked at man United, was the CEO from 2000 to 2002, when Ferguson was there, and when Ferguson renewed when many thought he wasn't, and then went on to be the CEO at Chelsea from 2003 to 2009, when Mourinho was there for a couple of those years and a couple of Premier League trophies when Avram Grant took them to the Champions League final in 2008. Now he's doing some work in Formula One, so an executive that's been at the top level of world football and also done some stuff outside of football Stories.
Speaker 4:I mean, that's what you get psyched about on these. If there's some good story, I think Anson is another one that will always tell a good story. But just to hear some of the insight about what goes on at that level, in those boardrooms, I think is always interesting yeah, I agree the stories will.
Speaker 5:I'm hoping that they'll uh uncork some good stories for us there, but uh, that's what my expectation would be for someone like that as well. Obviously he's, you know, led the business operations of some of the biggest clubs in the world, which that doesn't come without some good stories.
Speaker 3:So well, and, as we've talked, talked about before, youth soccer is full of businesses that have to generate revenue to pay coaches and pay facilities and do sorts of things that they do to help players, and so there are parallels to draw or lessons to draw from that, even when people pure soccer people don't like the word business so much, but it makes it possible to do the soccer stuff. And then the last group I'll put in one category is our U S soccer contingent which, again, this is one that raised some eyebrows, considering, you know, we've had some challenges in our U S soccer relationships and in the years past, but are working very positively with a lot of people at U S soccer right now and a variety of different ways. And so I guess leading that will be Matt Crocker, the new sporting director, who spent time at the English FA Time, is the director of football operations, southampton He'll be talking about with Emily Kosler, the senior director of strategy. They'll be talking about the new US way, which is their vision and philosophy for the future of American soccer as far as the Federation's influence in that goes, which is it goes a long way. So that'll be really interesting and, as I've said to him, you won't have a better room to talk to than 800 of the coaches and directors of the top clubs across America.
Speaker 3:And then we're going to have Nicole Lukic and Marika Lorenz, who are both in Talent ID Nicole, the head of Women's National Team, nicole Lukic and Marika Lawrence, who are both in Talent ID Nicole the head of Women's National Team's Talent ID and Marika in Talent ID Education so they'll talk a little bit about their vision and what they're doing in that space and what they're looking for. So a heavy presence from US soccer. At the ECNL Coaching Symposium Last year we had Didier, who did a great job from a coach education perspective and sharing his vision of where that's gone, and now we're going to be bringing multiple people in from the Federation. So I'll let you guys close on that.
Speaker 4:Good to be working closer together and good to have them in that room talking about their vision, their direction, all positive Because, to your point, in the past it's been up and down, if you will. Yeah, that's a polite way to say it.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, we want to have a good relationship with US soccer and many of the people that are involved with US soccer right now are doing a great job of extending that reach, and Chris Leahy and I were fortunate enough to go out to the member meetings recently and you know, and go into Chicago and talk with them. And the more we have a close working relationship with the right people around the table, the better. And I think in youth soccer certainly the ECNL has grown over the years to have a big, a big voice in the youth game and to have that voice connected to US soccer is going to be important.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean. First principle of organizational relationship is have many of them at multiple levels, and we are working on our part of doing that. So it's going to be an incredible event and, of course, also within that will be our AGM, where all of our leadership staff will be presenting at some level or another on what's going on. Staff will be presenting at some level or another on what's going on Girls, boys regionally, girls regionally boys, brand services, events. Everything will be giving a state of the league some vision, look forward, some reflection, look back. We'll be a really special, hopefully fun and informative two days and then a great opportunity to connect and network and rekindle some friendships with so many people, because there's a lot of friendships that have been built across this league as well, which is awesome.
Speaker 5:We have some questions coming in from the listeners to make sure that you're not going to be speaking that long, is that correct? I just want to make sure that we can answer the listeners correctly when GM rolls around this year.
Speaker 4:I say this every year. One of the coolest things about BCNL is that it brought coaches together when in the past, before that, there was no connectivity, we saw each other in short periods of time. We've all had the opportunity to create great relationships with people who do the same things we do, and I think that's really special.
Speaker 1:That's Doug Bracken with the final word of segment three. And it'll be Doug Bracken with the first word when we bring you Bracken's Brain Buster after this message. The ECNL is pleased to announce Quick Goal as the official goal provider and partner for ECNL Girls and ECNL Boys. A new partnership created to support the growth and development of the country's top players, clubs and coaches At all national events, including national playoffs and national finals. The Quick Goal Coaches Corner will provide hospitality and social space for ECNL girls, ecnl boys and collegiate coaches. Quick Goal will also be the presenting sponsor of the national championship-winning EC and L girls and EC and L boys coaches of the year and the EC and L girls and EC and L boys goals of the year. Quick Goal looks forward to helping the EC and L continue to elevate the standards of youth soccer and provide more opportunities to players on and off the field in the coming years. Back to wrap up the show with Doug Bracken and Bracken's Brain Buster.
Speaker 4:Just a reminder that if you have any questions or any topics that you want us to cover on this podcast, send them to us at info at theecnlcom. That's info at theecnlcom. We're happy to answer your questions or talk about topics that are interesting to you, so make sure that you do that as those come to your mind. All right, so I think our next broadcast will be really close to New Year's, so I went with and you might not have even given this any consideration yet, but now you're going to, all right, what will be your 2025 new year's resolution and and labors will let you go first, which is rare all right.
Speaker 3:Well, first of all, I'm not a huge new year's eve fan, so I'm overrated rock Brain Buster, but it's an overrated. Overrated it's the amateur party night, I think is how some people have described it. Yeah, and I'm also not a huge New Year's resolution guy Because I feel that most times when you try and do something totally cold turkey like that where you change something dramatically, it usually doesn't work.
Speaker 4:So I'm more of a small steps make, make, but you don't have like a general vibe going into 2025, like like you'd like to focus more on your health or you'd like to focus more on being nicer to the staff ecnl staff or talking less at the agn All right, I see where you're going.
Speaker 3:I see where you're going. Hey, I'm right now working on the health eating better Okay, eating less, eating better is hard in this country. I think we got some food chain issues to solve because we got so much processed stuff. So that's my very short and very uneducated perspective, but working on that.
Speaker 5:Did you just say very short. It's like 2025. Right now You've been talking about sorry, Doug, Sorry.
Speaker 4:That's all right. That's all right. It's your first. It's your first podcast, jason, in a while. So understood, let's go to. Let's go to Jacob. Jacob, what do you got? What do you got brewing for 2025?
Speaker 6:So much like Christian, I'm also not a big new year's resolution guy. I just think that a lot of times they are unrealistic and it more so makes you feel guilty about not doing things and actually improving your life.
Speaker 6:That being said, last year a lot of cynics, a lot of cynics right now. Last year, I did run my first 10 K, which was great, and I've been only in the last couple years. I've I've kind of gotten into running, which has been nice, um, but something that I have been doing a lot this last month and something I want to do more of is I want to keep track of every album that I listen to. I'm making my album of the year rankings and I'm probably about 46 47 albums deep, but it's very time consuming to do it now, so I want to keep track of all the music that I listened to over 2025.
Speaker 4:I love that. That's great. Music is awesome. Are you actually listening to the albums?
Speaker 6:Yes, I'm listening to. Oh no, I mean I'm listening to Spotify, but my wife and I do have a really big vinyl collection and I do. After my car stopped working, or my car with a cd player stopped working, I no longer buy cds, I buy vinyl. But yeah, we probably have somewhere of 40 to 50 vinyls in our house right now and we keep adding to it.
Speaker 4:I actually just had one delivered today the fact that jacob still has a cd player in his car is something we may need to talk about, uh, sometime soon.
Speaker 3:You've got one of those things. You stick the cassette in. So the cassette goes in and then you can attach the remote cd player. You remember that?
Speaker 4:oh, yeah, oh dude my mom my mom had an eight track uh player in her car. All right, that's, that's getting it done. All right, cut me. What do you got? What do you think in 2025?
Speaker 5:so many things I could think of that you need to work on um, I'll, I can assign that to you as a task for me which I would look forward to. I think for me, christian was kind enough to tell me that I'm one year around my birthday time. He told me I was one year away from when the like physical male body starts to completely just break down and fail in a number of different ways. So he made me think of life and the fact that that's age 44, according to some recent studies again aging coming on in my life here and like apparently I'm already moving to.
Speaker 3:Florida for my retirement.
Speaker 5:It already hit Dean, don't worry, so I my, my objective is to and I think we're all those people that work in soccer, probably work in all industries, but I can only speak to soccer because I've been I've been jammed in this box for a long time. Here is that we very casually and easily decide to do things without our family when we should decide to do them with our family. So I'm going to make a concerted effort to try to find it, whether it's more vacations, more times where I can take my family with me on soccer trips, et cetera, et cetera. I'm going to try my best to figure out ways that I can get my family involved with time away from the game or, if I'm time with the game, that I can include them with me. So that's I'm going to. I seriously am going or, if I'm time with the game, that I can include them with me.
Speaker 3:So seriously, I'm going to take a look at that, going forward as best I can. To be fair, that's a great answer. It makes me reconsider my answer there, jason.
Speaker 5:Well, the second one was axe throwing though I am going to work on axe throwing yes, axe throwing.
Speaker 3:I actually did a personal vision statement about a year ago. I took that idea from somebody on Twitter to sort of make those kind of commitments because you're right, you know, without without a clear sense, as just a time where you can think about those kinds of things.
Speaker 4:I'll tell you. The last couple of years I made a concerted effort to spend time with friends and make more of an effort in my friendships. Is that about?
Speaker 3:the same time that you stopped hanging out with us so much.
Speaker 4:You know I we don't have to get into that here and unpack all that right now. This year I'm going. I I would say the last two years have been my years of yes. I've kind of just done everything that I got invited to. This year, I'm going to focus on my health. You got some doctor stuff I got to get caught up with, I got to get sure I'm eating right and get back to my fighting weight, and so that's going to be my focus for 2025, be more healthy. So that's it. That's Bracken Brain Busters from us. Now, dean, you're the last one.
Speaker 1:Love to hear what you're thinking here a person you guys tease me about all the time, and that is my wife. So we got married on new year's eve. To make it more special and contradict what christian said about new year's eve, what you said, doug, about new year's eve, what jacob said about new year's eve. New year's eve for me is incredible. We spend it every night at the farrington inn, which is the only five-star chalet in North Carolina. So it's a great night and my resolution is pretty simple, right, particularly being in the TV business, and don't act like you haven't noticed. But when you see the Between Two Ferns episode with Steve Corral and Zach Galifianakis, and after Zach makes fun of Steve Corral's nose, steve Carell says you know, I hear that the camera adds 10 pounds. It looks like you just ate five televisions and I definitely fall into that category. So I have got to go at it, stick with it and, like you said, doug, somehow, some way, try to get closer to my fighting weight, which I'll never, never get there, but I got to at least closer to my fighting weight, which I'll never, never get there, but I got to at least make the effort and plan to All right.
Speaker 1:I want to thank each and every one of the great people that led today's show, which I thought was an awesome show Christian Lavers, doug Bracken, jason Cutney, jacob Bourne. I want to thank my producer, colin Thrash, and, most importantly, I want to thank all of you, the great members of the ECNL. In fact, for all of you, I'm Dean Linke, saying we'll see you in two weeks for another edition of Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast. In the meantime, happy holidays, happy new year and we'll see you soon. Thank you for listening to Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast. Email us at info at the ECNL dot com.