Breaking the Line: The ECNL Podcast
The Elite Clubs National League was founded in 2009 and continues to lead by daring to do things differently, embedded with grit, collaboration and tenacity – all things learned from the beautiful game. The ECNL protects and propels the integrity of the game and everyone it impacts by facilitating the perfect symmetry of excellence and humility, exclusivity and accessibility, freedom and community. We believe that challenging everyone to rise to their best creates game-changers that live well, long after cleats are unlaced. Born out of the belief in a better way. Continued in the ever-evolving pursuit of excellence.
Breaking the Line: The ECNL Podcast
Building Winners and Leaders, feat. Anson Dorrance, Peter Kenyon, Jeremy Boone and Eric Potterat | Breaking the Line Ep. 112
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Breaking The Line, the ECNL Podcast, went live and in-person at the ECNL Coaching Symposium at the Circa Resort in Las Vegas, NV for a historic podcast featuring some of the biggest names in soccer and leadership. ECNL President Christian Lavers and ECNL Vice President Doug Bracken sat down with former North Carolina Head Coach, USWNT Head Coach, and Hall of Famer Anson Dorrance, former Manchester United and Chelsea CEO Peter Kenyon, founder of Winning Leader Jeremy Boone and high-performance psychologist and retired US Navy Commander Eric Potterat.
Together, the group held a riveting roundtable discussion surrounding how to build winners and leaders. Can leadership be taught, or is it something people are born with? What can you do to foster leadership? How does winning and leadership go hand-in-hand? All these questions and more are answered on one of the most riveting episodes of Breaking The Line ever.
Learn more about each panel guest below.
Anson Dorrance: Former UNC Head Women’s Soccer Coach & USWNT Head Coach
Anson Dorrance is considered by many to be the most influential person in the history of American women’s soccer, and one of the most influential leaders in women’s soccer globally. As the head women’s soccer coach at the University of North Carolina, Dorrance won 22 NCAA National Championships and his program was rated as one of the most successful dynasties of the 20th Century. He is a seven-time NCAA Women’s Coach of the Year, was elected to the National Soccer Hall of Fame in 2008, and received the US Soccer Federation Werner Fricker Builder Award in 2016.
Peter Kenyon: Former CEO Manchester United and Chelsea
Peter Kenyon is a distinguished football executive celebrated for his transformative leadership at two of England's biggest clubs, Manchester United and Chelsea FC. At Manchester United, Kenyon expanded the club's commercial reach, solidifying it as one of the world's most profitable football brands. Later, as CEO of Chelsea, he oversaw the club's dramatic rise under Roman Abramovich, driving its global brand recognition and footballing success. Known for his strategic vision and negotiating expertise, Kenyon remains a pivotal figure in the sports industry.
Jeremy Boone: Winning Leader
Jeremy is an internationally recognized performance coach, best-selling author, published researcher, and the creator of Winning Leader™—a groundbreaking platform that accelerates influence, creates lasting impact, and helps leaders in sports and business accomplish their missions. He was named among the top 5 in the '50 Under 50' category for Entrepreneur of the Year by Disruptor Magazine, and has earned acclaim for his award-winning 2019 TEDx Talk, 'The Courage To Connect,' which has been incorporated into leadership curricula across Fortune 500 companies, professional sports teams, colleges, and high schools nationwide.
Eric Potterat: High Performance Psychologist, Retired US Navy Commander and Bestselling Author
Eric Potterat, Ph.D. is a high-performance psychologist, retired US Navy Commander and bestselling author. Eric served for 10 years as the psychologist for the US Navy SEALs, responsible for the mental assessment, selection, development, maintenance and enhancement programs for the Navy’s best warriors and highest performers. Eric is credited with developing and implementing the mental toughness curriculum for the U.S. Navy SEALs and was awarded the Legion of Merit medal upon his retirement from the Navy in 2016.
This is Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast, featuring ECNL President and CEO Christian Lavers and ECNL Vice President Doug Bracken. This week's show comes to you from the ECNL Coaching Symposium and AGM held in Las Vegas February 4 and February 5. Breaking the Line the ECNL podcast is dedicated to each and every member of the ECNL, and today's show has to be one of the most fascinating shows the ECNL has ever done. This one even has its own name, titled Winning and Leaders, featuring Anson Dorrance, jeremy Boone, peter Kenyon and Eric Potterat. What a panel. Here's a little more on the four guests, who were all featured presenters at the ECNL symposium.
Speaker 1:Anson Dorrance truly needs no introduction. He is considered by many to be the most influential person in the history of American women's soccer and one of the most influential leaders in women's soccer globally. As the head women's soccer coach at the University of North Carolina, dorrance won 22 NCAA national championships and his program was rated as one of the most successful dynasties of the 20th century. He is a seven-time NCAA Women's Coach of the Year, was elected to the National Soccer Hall of Fame in 2008, and received the US Soccer Federation Werner Fricker Builder Award in 2016. In 2016. Jeremy Boone is an internationally recognized performance coach, best-selling author, published researcher and the creator of Winning Leader, a groundbreaking platform that accelerates influence, creates lasting impact and helps leaders in sports and business accomplish their missions. He was named among the top five in the 50 under 50 category for Entrepreneur of the Year by Disruptor Magazine and has earned acclaim for his award-winning 2019 TEDx talk quote, the Courage to Connect end quote, which has been incorporated into leadership curricula across Fortune 500 companies, professional sports teams, colleges and high schools nationwide. Sports teams, colleges and high schools nationwide.
Speaker 1:Peter Kenyon is a distinguished football executive celebrated for his transformative leadership at two of England's biggest clubs Manchester United and Chelsea FC. At man United, kenyon expanded the club's commercial reach, solidifying it as one of the world's most profitable football brands. Later, as CEO of Chelsea, he oversaw the club's dramatic rise, driving its global brand recognition and footballing success. Known for his strategic vision and negotiating expertise, peter Kenyon remains a pivotal figure in the sports industry.
Speaker 1:Dr Eric Potterat is a high-performance psychologist, retired US Navy commander and best-selling author. Dr Potterat served for 10 years as the psychologist for the US Navy SEALs, responsible for the mental assessment, selection, development, maintenance and enhancement programs for the Navy's best warriors and highest performers. Dr Potterat is credited with developing and implementing the mental toughness curriculum for the US Navyarat, is credited with developing and implementing the mental toughness curriculum for the US Navy SEALs and was awarded the Legion of Merit Medal upon his retirement from the Navy in 2016. Quite the panel, indeed, and before we get started, thank yous to ECNL's Jacob Bourne, and our producer, colin Thrash, for putting this together. With that, I give you the ECNL president and CEO, christian Labors.
Speaker 2:I'd like to welcome you to the 2025 ECNL coaching symposium. We're sitting here in a podcast discussion with four extraordinary leaders who are going to be presenting over the next two days here to the almost a thousand coaches from around the country that are in attendance to learn, to network, to help make the sport better. So we're really thrilled to have you guys. You're experts in your field across the world Very, very eclectic group of experiences, which is why we brought you together here. So we'll just introduce you very quickly Eric Potterat, retired Navy commander. Anson Dorrance, longtime coach at UNC Chapel Hill and the women's national team. Peter Kenyon, ceo of Manchester United and Chelsea. And Jeremy Boone, winning leader, expert on axiology, which we'll learn about, and high character in leadership. So welcome you guys. We're thrilled to have you here. This is going to be a really open-ended discussion. We're just going to throw questions at you see where it goes. People can take answers. The more I'm sitting and listening and you're talking, the better. This is going to be, so welcome.
Speaker 3:Doug, thanks for having us guys. Thanks for coming and supporting and presenting at our symposium. This will be the biggest symposium we've ever had, so really super excited to have you guys and have this conversation.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. So I'm going to start and just throw out a general question here and I'm going to say when you observe truly exceptional leaders and you've worked with them all as players, as athletes, as special forces and all sorts of industries and areas what patterns or qualities do you notice that separate them from merely good leaders? What's the difference between good and great in leadership, and what are the differentiators that most people miss when they're looking to evaluate leaders or evaluate people for leadership positions?
Speaker 4:Anson, because I coach on the women's side of the ledger. The biggest issue for me is to find a courageous woman that's going to, using Brene Brown's statement, dare to lead. The biggest issue we have right now in women's athletics, in my experience, is we certainly have women with huge potential to lead. The biggest issue we have right now in women's athletics, in my experience, is we certainly have women with huge potential to lead, but they're so concerned about the opinion of the people in the group that she's leading they're reluctant to say anything. So, basically, what ends up happening? And this is a big issue One of the things I talk about all the time when I am chatting with trying to develop the leaders on my team at the University of North is to get them to actually open their mouths, and so for me, there's a gender difference in this area and we've got to figure out a way to try to resolve it.
Speaker 4:And for us right now, I think the critical element is to get them to have the guts to say something, knowing that when they say something, they're going to get some sort of criticism from people within the group, and I think it's that fear they have and they're reluctant to really lead effectively. So for me this is a very critical area and I'm actually very happy you began with this question.
Speaker 2:Eric, do you have a reaction to that?
Speaker 5:I've had the luxury of working multiple different verticals. I've worked, you know, obviously, in the military and professional, sport and business, and I think it really, for me it comes down, I've noticed it comes down to really six key attributes, our qualities of the best leaders or coaches, and I think number one is accountability. I think that goes without saying. I think number two is communication clear, consistent, concise communication. I think the next four are very interesting. It's curiosity. I think the best leaders and coaches are more concerned about the why and the how rather than the what, so they're always trying to dig in and learn a little bit more about their craft.
Speaker 5:I think reflective thinking is the fourth attribute that I notice, and the best way to describe this is really like a chess player. Good reflective thinkers think about things that that could be consequential before they make a move. Low reflective leaders have a bias towards action and then, the more times than not they are hyper concerned about hey, I wish I had given that more time. So I think being reflective is important. I think emotional intelligence is the fifth. I think that goes without saying know your own emotions, be self-aware. I think that's important. And then, lastly, I hate to sound like a performance psychologist, but I think the best leaders have a high degree of empathy, their ability to temporarily put their own perspective aside to understand the perspective of the individual they're trying to lead, first and foremost.
Speaker 2:So so we have a couple of comments on communication. I'm going to turn to you, jeremy, and maybe, as you answer this, you can even give us a little bit of a sense of what your field in axiology is, if it ties into this.
Speaker 6:Yeah, axiology complements psychology. Axiology is the science of human value and decision making. It's a mathematical based science, and so it measures how an individual assigns value to themselves and their self view, and then it measures how they assign value in their worldview so everything outside of your skin and then it can take that pattern and look and say is that pattern fit with the objective of what the individual is trying to do? So an easy way to to summarize that is that, um, neuroscience is to the brain, as axiology is to the mind, right To be able to do that. A couple other things I think I would add a thing to later on top of of your comments, of your six, and those are foundational and critical.
Speaker 6:Um, we find a couple of other different elements too. That number one, you know, difference between a good leader and a great leader. A great leader is very, very clear about what the future looks like. There's no guesswork, there's, it's not a, it's not a mist, it's not a fog, and they can come back from the future into the present and then take people with them to get into the future. That's the difference between a great leader and a manager and man. A manager starts today and just gets my team to the end of today and and then I start again to tomorrow. So clarity of the future is definitely an element Connection, not just communication and at times we could even maybe argue that connection trumps communication and my ability to connect with people, with themselves and how they fit into this desirable but difficult to achieve future that I'm going to make real as a leader for you and the people that come with me. I think that's important.
Speaker 6:A great leader also gives a daily invitation. They just don't pitch at the beginning of a preseason or the beginning of the annual cycle year in the executive space, like Eric mentioned, where he is in two. They don't pitch that as a static piece. Daily they come back and they give that invitation over and over and over again to make sure that people have ownership into what that is. It's not just a leader's story, it's everybody's story. So when you said accountability, man, that was right. That accountability is an offer of invitation, of ownership into this future that we want together and if we do that together then we have a way to protect the mission so you're talking about accountability.
Speaker 2:To be clear about the mission and the vision and the values. Obviously, peter, you've worked with some exceptional leaders and coaches that they probably don't get too different in style than jose marino as a coach, and alex Alex Ferguson. What would you add to this discussion?
Speaker 7:There are bigger differences than those two, let me tell you. But I think accountability and responsibility is right up there and I think vision. And then this issue of people you take people. Leaders take people with them right. They go first and then bring people with them. They don't push people out front and follow um.
Speaker 7:And yeah, I've had some great opportunities to work with some of the best talent and some of the best talent in the world. They're not leaders, they're just great at what they do right. So don't mix one with the other. Somebody who's really good at the job actually you want him to be really good at their job. Not every one of those can be a leader and leadership is many different styles. So a leader in one organisation is not necessarily a good leader in another, because it's what he surrounds himself with or he's surrounded by. So it's a fluid. It isn't annual business plan and this is my leadership piece. You don't think like that. They think broader, bigger, different. I think they take a. They almost come out and look overview. They have a very good overview.
Speaker 7:And then, um, you know ferguson um one of the best people management. He led through just being incredibly good at people management. There was a culture which was around him, but it was built on what Manchester United was. He fundamentally understood what it was to be a coach or a player and he actually developed a lot of leaders within the team, and that was a common thing with Marino. Marino had three captains on the team any time he played John Terry, didier Drogba, frank Lampard and within that group they knew who the senior boy was. So the leadership is very flexible. It's not tick the box and you're a leader, and it's demonstrated, particularly in my experience of sport, in multiple ways.
Speaker 3:We have obviously been a youth soccer league. We have what I think is an incredible responsibility to help teach and develop the next generation of leaders. So you guys identified what makes a great leader. How do you teach the next generation to be leaders or develop those young people to be our next generation of leaders Real, big leaders are born right.
Speaker 7:I think you develop them. You don't create them. I think you identify them because they will identify themselves right the way through the process. I think when they're at school, when they're at university, when they're in the job environment, they step up. They're different. The top real leaders that I know are all different, whether that's industry or sport or medic.
Speaker 4:Anson. I completely agree with him. I had an opportunity to teach a course at the University of North Carolina over the last couple of springs and because obviously the political climate in this country is so contentious, I had a debate with a fellow professor on the first day of class and the debate we were having was can you teach leadership? And so I don't think you can. And why do I not think you can develop leadership, even though if you look at the kids that have come through our program that have ended up in amazing leadership positions, I was just given them as an extraordinary leader and I gave them a chance to lead and then they did. And, trust me, I've done everything under the sun to try to develop leadership and I don't really see myself moving the needle with the kids that I'm training and developing. But all of a sudden you give a kid a chance to lead and you can see whether they will actually lead. I mean, obviously, the president of US soccer right now is Cindy Parlow. She was one of my captains, but I don't think I really contributed to her leadership. I just put her in a position where she could lead and then she just took off and led teams that way. So this debate we have on the first day of class is this wonderful professor who's, by the way, his IQ is so way beyond mine. It's sort of an unfair debate, but he's in there. His name is Jeff Green. He teaches in our School of Education and what he is basically debating is that you can and he's talking about these different ways they move the needle in leadership.
Speaker 4:I've tried absolutely everything under the sun and I don't really see myself moving the needle, but what happens is exactly what you described, peter. What happens is, all of a sudden, you've got this extraordinary leader within your culture and all of a sudden you give them an opportunity to lead and they take off. And getting back to the gender difference thing, because obviously I work in the women's game, so for me this is a very critical area We've had some extraordinary teams with great talent that didn't win championships because the leadership was average at best, and we've had other teams without as much talent that ended up doing amazing things because the leadership was extraordinary. And, by the way, jeremy, I love your stuff because for me, everything is about character development and if you want to develop a culture of extraordinary people that have extraordinary success, the culture piece is absolutely vital, and I think a piece that all of us miss in coaching is that address.
Speaker 4:And so I think too many of us are concerned about the X's and O's and those sorts of different elements that too many of us are concerned about. All right, I'm going to create and develop a leader, and then we're basically wasting our time if we haven't solved the character piece. So for me, this conversation right now is off the charts. I've really appreciated and enjoyed it. I know I'm going to learn things in the next two days. Jeremy Boone.
Speaker 6:I love this question. I think this is maybe the most fun question to debate. Can leaders, you know, be made or are they born? I think there are a couple other elements on top of what both of you all said, which is this the narrative will reveal the leader is what I continue to find. So it's like you just don't have a leader or you don't. It's not a title or a paycheck. The leaders that rise up and succeed and get people to come with them to your point are the ones that see themselves so clearly in that narrative. They are connected to that narrative with conviction, not of just I'm kind of interested, I'm not just passionate about soccer, you know what I mean Some of the best leaders that I've seen. They are convicted to make that future come true.
Speaker 6:And which leads to the second piece about developing leaders. The mistake is that people chase leadership development as a skill. Go look at books, Go look at podcasts, Go look at YouTube videos, Go look at every article on HBR. It's about the skill of leadership. Leadership doesn't start with a skill. That's the problem. And so if we take a traditional approach to try and develop leaders, guess what we're going to get Traditional results.
Speaker 2:So let me ask that, when you say it doesn't start with a skill, be specific on what do you believe it starts with?
Speaker 6:Yeah, it doesn't, it starts with capacity and that's where and probably you know much like Eric and his work we kind of swim in the same lanes and maybe some different ways, but the same lanes and we're going to go in and look at does this individual have the potential to lead this company and be the CEO of a $15 billion company? It's not about skillset. Do they have the capacity to lead? What's the narrative in their self-narrative? We got to start there. Do they have the capacity to be able to lean in and execute? Then we can build skills Skills are just repetition to be able to do that. But every one of these gentlemen up here that have incredible stories I mean beyond anything I've accomplished because they had the capacity to do so and then they layered in with their talents and gifts that they brought every day as leaders. And then those skills are just the icing on the cake.
Speaker 5:Eric. Back to your question. I think this hits a chord for me the youth and what we're doing to kind of embody and strengthen kind of the youth mindset, if you will. I agree with everything the gentlemen here have said with respect to leadership. The one caveat I'll throw in that's a bit of a curveball is I do believe in my opinion one of the quickest derailers of leadership is adversity and I do strongly believe we have a responsibility to teach our youth adversity tolerance. And I think whether we call these mental skills you're going to hear some of that today I think there's a lot of empirically based things that we can certainly strengthen that muscle and at least lessen the odds of leaders getting off track or off ramped when adversity happens. Adversity is the new constant, it's going to happen and I think I'm not going to be political here, I'm going to be careful. I think most organizations don't focus downstream enough with really empowering, evidence-based ways to really teach adversity tolerance.
Speaker 2:Let me jump on that and I'll maybe throw a variation here, because when you talk about resilience or adversity tolerance you've worked with Navy SEALs, you've worked in athletics, you talked about business how do you build the capacity to be resilient, how do you build the capacity to tolerate adversity? When you talk about the capacity you have, expand on that and how you grow in that space.
Speaker 5:So I think there's a reasonable methodology that one has to give skill training first, and I hesitate to say death by PowerPoint, but there has to be some rudimentary understanding of these are the things that one can apply Now. Where most organizations fail and the SEALs were probably the best in the world at this is there's something called in vivo training. You teach these things and you have them practice these skills in a highly stressful situation. We did this with Red Bull, with grizzly bears and snakes. You'll hear that today, and I do think it's important to really maximize the human stress response ethically and allow the youth or the individuals to then practice what they've learned in an in vivo, highly stressful environment.
Speaker 2:That's an interesting perspective because I do believe that so much of our culture right now does not want stress in any fashion or form.
Speaker 7:And that's not political, but it's just does not allow you to do that.
Speaker 3:but it just does not allow you to do that. We remove the barriers instead of allowing them is basically what you're saying.
Speaker 7:All the guys I know who are great leaders in the sport that we're all talking about today. They've had adversity throughout their life. They grew up with it, they were born with it right. I don't know one who's got a silver spoon in his mouth, who's become that level of leader.
Speaker 4:Yeah, let me jump in First of all, eric, I love it. I absolutely love everything you share because I think these pieces are absolutely critical. I read a book in the mid-90s called Greater Expectations. It was written by William Damon and what he talks about? He talks about the culture of the way we raise our kids, and there was this self-esteem idea back in the day where if you want to construct an extraordinary child, you would protect them from the chaos of the universe by praising them for everything they did. And all kinds of ridiculous things happened because of this the way we were advised to raise our kids and one thing that happened is basically they lost a sense of what a standard was, because anything they did was praiseworthy.
Speaker 4:And one thing I love about my athletic director at the University of North Carolina, bubba Cunningham, is he brings in the eminent sociologists to speak with us every five years or so. My favorite one was brought in in the year 2012. I don't remember everything he said, but I do remember the first two slides. The first slide was the date on the slide was 1969. This kid's coming, and why do I remember that? That's my high school graduation year. So this kid comes home from school. He has all Fs on his report card and the parents are screaming at the kid. And now we're shifting to the kids we're recruiting and training, which is 2012. This kid comes home from school with all Fs on his report card and the parents are screaming at the teacher. So now the way I guess we've redesigned the helicopter parent. The new parent is the snowplow parent. The snowplow parent doesn't just hover above the kid and watch over them. The snowplow parent literally pushes every obstacle out of the way for their children so they don't have to face adversity. And this issue with not facing adversity means they are never going to actually be able to achieve anything because they're protected from absolutely everything.
Speaker 4:And so what do we do at the University of North Carolina? What did I do when I was selected to coach the US Women's National Team back in the mid-80s? We have this thing called the competitive cauldron. Guess what? This is a meritocracy. And if we've selected a 32-player list for the US Women's National Team, we're going to have, you know, 28 different categories where you're ranked from one to basically 32. Well, actually not 32, because four of them are goalkeepers, so basically up to 28. And so you know exactly where you stand. So, all of a sudden, this climate where these kids are being raised to basically be protected from the chaos of the universe they're exposed now because everything is ranked. This is a meritocracy and, by the way, it is stressful. So if you can't handle this, you know. Basically, you know, take up, I don't know, hopscotch, where there's no one's getting in your way for you trying to finish this sequence effectively. And so, eric, I'm with you Absolutely, one hundred percent. I really appreciate listening to that. Can we make this like?
Speaker 6:three hours long. It's like, seriously, this is great. About a month ago, I was wrapping up the offseason for the spring sports in college, getting ready, and I had a coach who won a national championship last year who called me with a unique situation around. His captain was struggling because the seniors on the team Now, Anton, this is, you've got to shake your head the seniors on the team, the rising singers this year they won a national championship last year went to the coaching staff to complain because the captain was holding them accountable. True story these guys won the national championship last year and they didn't want to be held accountable. They were comfortable in their story. These guys won the national championship last year and they didn't want to be held accountable. They were comfortable in their story.
Speaker 6:And I think comfort is the key word when we talk about resilience and youth. And what are we doing? Right, Because growth dies in our comfort. The three rules of of of growth growth dies in your comfort zone was best for you, as outside of your comfort zone, your brain is going to fight like heck to keep you inside of your comfort zone, you know.
Speaker 6:And so if we're just reinforcing comfort, comfort, or if we're reinforcing leadership as a short game, Like I couldn't imagine to be a coach in college right now of kids who you know. If I don't win now, I don't want to be comfortable. I'm going to go to a different place so I can be a part of winning, and not the reason that we win, which ties back to the skill sets of resiliency, and I think that's what we really have to question right now and how we're going to try to reveal and develop young leaders, if we can do that, of what uncomfortable situations actually look like to put people in building on the resiliency, the, the other characteristic that I see in the, in the guys that I respect and see as really the top pinnacle of leadership in our sport, and they've got great empathy, right to your point, which most people would not give.
Speaker 7:attribute empathy to them because of the toughest people in the world. They will make the decisions that need to be made for the greater good and it's really. They operate in these dual worlds, these extremes. I think They'll take the hardest decision against the guy that probably has delivered more to them than anybody else in that team. Let me expand on that because it's a perfect segue. Thank you, against the guy that probably has delivered more to them than anybody else in that team.
Speaker 2:Let me expand on that because it's a perfect segue. Thank you. You've all worked with exceptional performers at an individual level. How do you keep the exceptional former contributing to the team and balance that individual excellence, individual aspiration, individual? We have a very me, me, me culture in society. How do you make sure that that stays contributing to the team and it doesn't break apart with a bunch of egos or a bunch of people that are more focused on their own individual successful performance than the team they need?
Speaker 7:managing as well. The leaders need managing as well. Never let a leader just be the one. The leaders need managing as well. Never let a leader just be the one. So the coach in our sport is very much the face of the team in most organizations, but he needs leading, he needs managing.
Speaker 5:For me, there's some bad words when it comes to teaming and I think me, my and I are those bad words. I think we, us, ours, are something that kind of needs to be brainwashed. I know it sounds cliche, but the me, my, I people, they really generally. There might be some outlier exceptions, but generally speaking they're going to be a detriment to teaming.
Speaker 2:So it's a we, us ours. Can you even read into how much somebody uses those words and when they speak about their team or their role on a team?
Speaker 5:Yes and no In my experience. I think there is some verbiage that comes out of their mouths, but also it's about performance. What they're doing Does it seem to be self-driven as opposed to the greater good, and I think when it comes to team sports it has to be the greater good. We have to put our own individual accomplishments aside and you know sacrifice if you will. I know that sounds a bit again cliche, but it's really important and I think that needs to start to your point with kind of youth training as well. There's no me, my I. This is the wrong. Team sports are the wrong place for that Individual sport. Maybe I mean you can get away with that as a tennis player, pickleball player, golfer, maybe.
Speaker 3:It feels like this answer and this question just goes directly back to the culture that's created and what the leader sets up and what they're willing to accept or not accept. How you create that and I think everybody who's listening to this would ask that question how do you create a culture of us, our right, and combat the I me, my kind of idea? You know there's somebody who's experienced it. I'm sure you all have too, and Christian would say, when you're with a team, it's a daunting task to create that culture. So any words of wisdom on how to do that?
Speaker 4:The raging debate we all have in our coaches meetings when we assemble all the coaches at the University of North Carolina, is whether you recruit the extraordinary talent that you know can help you win games with the sacrifice of recruiting someone with below average character. So you watch this kid play, you're out there on the EC&L fields and we're watching these kids play and you're never going to get the truth out of the EC and L coach because they're dying for the kid to represent. You know them at the University of North Carolina. So when you speak to the coach, even though they know this kid, you know compromises, the culture. They're dying for you to end up with this kid. So you don't really get a good character assessment. And also, the last thing you can do right now in my profession is to actually send a psychological profile to the kid to have her take it, because you're never going to sign another player if that's all of a sudden your process. And so the thing, the debate we go through in the room all of the coaches in the room talk about bringing in the exceptional player because you're watching them play going holy cow, we're going to win a heck of a lot of games with that kid. But here's what ends up happening. And we have so many stories about this in the room from every coach. We have 28 sports at the University of North Carolina. These are stories from every coach in the room.
Speaker 4:You look at this kid and you're salivating. You end up bringing them in and here's the way it works their freshman year. They're extraordinary. They hope you win and you're thinking, oh my gosh. And here's what you're thinking. What you're thinking when you bring in this kid, when you've heard some rumors about him. You're thinking, yeah, our culture can change the kid. That's what you're thinking. Our culture can change the kid. There's a lot of laughs to that statement.
Speaker 4:Exactly right, exactly right. And then we bring the kid in, and then again their freshman year. They're off the freaking charts and you're thinking, my God, I knew my culture could change the kid. And then all of a sudden, from then on, as they get more comfortable within your culture, they start taking it apart, and then the destruction that occurs in their sophomore, junior and senior year isn't worth the highlight reel that they helped form in their freshman year. And then you regret it. You regret bringing in this kid because once they get comfortable, they will tear your culture to pieces. And so I'd love to pretend for a second that we can bring a kid in and transform someone with low character into becoming a part of a culture because of something we said or did or constructed around them. No, they're going to go off on their own tangent and, before you know it, you're going to regret ever bringing this kid in hey, right now, if you're watching this podcast, pause it I'm serious rewind what anson just said.
Speaker 6:I don't even know where the camera is.
Speaker 3:Rewind that and play that like 10 times well here's my question and you you could answer either one of you. Does that idea change if I say you're dealing with youth players? Because youth players maybe still need to learn. So you're in a selection phase, so you have the luxury of looking out there and saying I'm taking these high care, you have the luxury of signing high character people, right, but as a youth, a person who deals with youth, do we have that luxury or do we have some responsibility?
Speaker 4:to teach. Here's where I think the challenge is at a youth level. You guys, I'm giving all the responsibility to the youth in this scenario you guys will pass it on, good pass it, pass it somewhere else.
Speaker 4:because, yeah, the relationship that this kid has with their parents is critical. That's why, believe it or not, right now, I brought on this trip the book written in 1995 by william damon, expectations, and the reason I'm reading this book for the second or third time is he gets to the core of it. The challenge you have at a youth level is can you confront that parent that is basically allowing this kid to sort of run rampant? Can you? And it's going to be nearly impossible, in my opinion. Uh, but uh, this is where it begins. It begins by letting them get away with stuff, uh, when they're young, because then it's going to, their character is going to be shaped. Not that, you know, people can't change. I do think people can change, but I just don't know, cause I've. I've done this for 47 years at a collegiate level and I don't think I've really completely converted, you know some moral reprobate by the time she was a senior. I just I'm not convinced I've ever been able to do that.
Speaker 2:So I think it's going to have to add dictionary definitions to the show notes.
Speaker 4:Christian, we're going to throw this back to you guys.
Speaker 3:By the way, christian is very unhappy when you use words that are bigger than what he uses, because normally he says words on every podcast and I'm like I don't have any idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 6:A couple of thoughts to that too. And there's some challenges, exactly what Anson said around for the youth, I do think responsibility is the word from a club perspective and I know the reason I'm here is because of of gary beauty with in cfc and that's one of their challenges they talk about all of the time. How can they nurture, you know, the side of a young person in their character development, but in their value structure, not core values as a moral value of truth, trust, discipline, not that, but how they value another individual on their team, not just to the extent of are you going to pass me the ball so I get all the shots, but I can value intrinsically in a different way and learn to be able to lead and influence. Through that. The individual is interesting. You know we had this is my 14th year with Penske Racing NASCAR, so in North Carolina we have that sport too, and the past three years we've won three championships with different drivers and we've got some really young pit crew guys and you have five guys that have to complete 61 tasks in eight and a half seconds. So it's perfection. And we had this young jack man. It was his first time up on a cup level car, but he got put on a house car, a championship car, three years ago and he was doing all the stuff right and he'd never been a leader. He came from the world of football as a defensive end, just a great guy, and they had some cultural issues on the team and had to pull him aside. And he's like Jeremy, I'm doing my part. And he used one of your danger words and he said that over again in front of the whole team I'm doing mine. And we had to stop and we had to say look, just because your individual performance is executing to the standard, you don't get to absolve yourself of the accountability for the rest of the team, and standard is the key word there, and that's what Anson has done.
Speaker 6:I'm going to tell you a story about Anson that Anson probably has forgotten about. This is great. In 2006, anson had a young woman on his team by the name of Alyssa Ramsey, and Alyssa was a young lady I got to work with when she was in high school and then, occasionally, when she would come home, I would hear some really good stories about Anson. And then during the season, they had a game, and she calls me after the game. One night before we had cell phones and you couldn't do any of this stuff.
Speaker 6:And initially she was all mad and I'll tell me about the game. She's like well, we won. And I said okay, well then, why are you frustrated, aly, alyssa? And Alyssa says well, because Anson ripped us a new one in the locker room because he said we didn't respect the opponent. I go, well, you just said you won like and I don't remember the scores, maybe 3-0 or whatever it was. And he goes. And Alyssa said we were up Like, so we called off the dogs, we got comfortable right and Alyssa said Anson said the standard of respecting your opponent is 90 minutes. You go all out. If that means it's 10, nothing, 20, nothing, it doesn't matter. That's the standard of what this culture is about. Right? And Alyssa took that forever and I've shared that story in every single boardroom, meeting room, schoolroom, anson, forever. And I attribute to what you've done. It's great.
Speaker 4:Am I allowed to swear on this? Can you edit it?
Speaker 2:I'm not arguing with you, okay.
Speaker 4:I'll give you the permission. So did Christian just give me permission? I can't tell Plausible deniability. You're a lawyer, aren't you Recovering? Recovering lawyer, okay, so this is going to be dangerous.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, here's our philosophy. Our philosophy is the way you respect an opponent is by beating the absolute shit out of them. That's the way you respect an opponent. So the way you respect an opponent isn't by trying to keep the score as low as possible, by the way, we don't go to 20. I have a personal philosophy to stop at 9. So once, by the way, we don't go to 20. I have a personal philosophy to stop at nine. So once we get to nine, we play possession. So it's never gone over nine. So for us, yeah, that's something that's baked into the culture. We're going to, basically, we're going to go as hard as we can, as long as we can, and so Ramsey was spot on. That's a part of our DNA. By the way, I'm not vulgar, I am profane. So in case the lawyers in the room want to know what's going on, very good distinction. Well, thank you. I just wanted Christian to know that. You know, I understand the difference between.
Speaker 2:Actually between the amount of swearing and IQ, so I think it goes positively up. You might disagree from a character coaching perspective.
Speaker 4:Well, I'm a member of a very conservative church and my bishop came to watch me coach once and following the game he said Hanson, is it possible to coach without swearing? And I'm thinking, oh gosh, hell, no.
Speaker 1:On that very funny note, we'll take our first break and be back with more of this amazing panel winning and leaders as part of Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast. That after this message from Nike.
Speaker 8:Nike is a proud sponsor of ECNL. Nothing can stop what we can do together to bring positive change to our communities. You can't stop sport because hashtag. You can't stop our voices. Follow Nike on Instagram, facebook and Twitter.
Speaker 1:Thank you, nike, and we pick back up our conversation with Christian Labor's Doug Bracken and four amazing leaders. Take it away yet again, christian.
Speaker 2:I'll change a little bit. You guys have talked about culture in a variety of ways. Mostly is impacted by leadership and talking about organizational change, cultural change, big moments of change, whether it's a class that graduates, whether it's a new leader that comes in, whether there's a shift in the business or the ecosystem in which somebody is operating that requires a rethink or a adjustment in core processes or core actions. How do you manage through that Like?
Speaker 3:Alex Ferguson retiring. Yeah, that's a big one, that'd be a big one.
Speaker 7:Yeah, that's a big one, That'd be a big one, Okay, I mean I think I go back to Alex. So the culture of United was there before Alex. What Alex did is recognize that culture when he came in. Okay, so between Busby and Alex we had quite a few managers who were nowhere near as successful as Alex became. So one of the things that Alex did was recognise that culture and, to your point, we got people who fit that culture. We got and made them better because of that culture.
Speaker 7:Right, we didn't try and teach that culture. We absolutely. So he sums it up one day to me when we're just on the pitch and we're in a transfer window and he sort of said we all need to realise that the best player in the world could not necessarily play at Old Trafford, be a Manchester United player. So we always paid great, but we never paid the most. If anybody said I've been having an offer from Real Madrid, we'd say thank you very much. Go to Real Madrid Because it was sacrosanct that these guys came to you for the right reason. You can't teach it. They're coming there to win, not for the biggest paycheck. And that went right the way through the organisation right, Because there's a fundamental in a team. When it starts operating like that is, you can waste an awful lot of money because if you've made the wrong selection, his teammates don't play with him. The high-performing teams are the best ones at weeding out the people themselves that don't fit. They don't go through a norm.
Speaker 3:And so, in your estimation and this might be a little controversial what's happened since?
Speaker 7:They've lost the culture. They don't know what a Manchester United player is. They pay the most money. For what?
Speaker 2:And paying the most money is sort of a proxy for a value that is prioritizing the club.
Speaker 7:It must be good, not at all, okay. So that's really important.
Speaker 4:I love this clip I saw on Dan Hurley. Dan Hurley is a two-time in a row national champion at the University of Connecticut in men's basketball.
Speaker 3:Also profane, if you've ever watched any of his stuff.
Speaker 4:I wasn't aware he was profane, but thank you, for he's on the team, the profane team. Thank you for protecting me. So, anyway, I'm listening to this and this guy is spot on, because right now, in the rooms with the other coaches at UNC, we're talking about the huge issue we all have, and so this has been a part of our recent conversation, and it's a good conversation. The thing I love about Dan Hurley is what he said. He said, basically, we don't recruit the gold medalists, we recruit the silver medalists, and what he meant by that is what you're saying Manchester United doesn't throw out the largest paycheck to get the best player they can. They're going to find someone that fits within their culture, and so here are the sorts of kids that he chases.
Speaker 4:And, by the way, as all of you guys know that know anything about basketball, uconn's not a blue blood, we're a blue blood, kentucky's a blue blood, duke is a blue blood. Unfortunately, and certainly this year, it's very unfortunate that they are. Kansas is, et cetera, but UConn is not. So what does UConn have? They can't go after that guy. They go after the silver medalist, and the silver medalist is the sort of kid they recruit where, if he's not getting maximum minutes and he's not getting his shot totals that he wants.
Speaker 4:The parents tell the kid oh, you've got to work harder. What an interesting idea to recruit a kid whose parents are going to tell him to get on the the court. You've got to work a little harder. And those are the kids that he wants, those the kids within his culture, which has put him in a position in the name, image and likeness era to win two in a row where clearly he's not giving them as much money as the rest of us are, that compete at a blue blood level. And so, for me, listening to this is critical. That's the direction we have to go in. We have to figure out a way to recruit kids for the right reason and not sacrifice our identity in order to win by outbidding everyone in these wars at a football level and a basketball level.
Speaker 7:You asked the question how do you create that? So Alex recognized it built incredible success over multi years based around getting the right people to fit in it, getting them work harder, be better and, by the way, there were some of the best in the world, right? Okay, so we didn't do it with Joe Average.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but they became the best in the world.
Speaker 7:But they became better than they were and the team became better than they were. I moved to Chelsea, which was, you know, when we bought it, it was one week away from being bust. Its culture was awful, right, awful to the point of non-existent. Culture was awful, right, awful to the point of non-existent. We had great players, and the other thing that I took with me is Alex said one day that you know, until you've won, you don't know what it's like to win. Once you've won, you never want to lose. Okay, and that is as true today as it was 10 years ago, as it was 20, 30 years ago.
Speaker 7:When he came, because we had very, very good players right who'd never won, and Marino we brought in to start the culture. He had a completely different style. So it's not as though these guys are all lined up and they've all got the same 10 attributes. They're very different, but we wanted him to start that of winning because he understood what winning needed to be. We got talent, he needed to create that environment and we, in that first two, two and a half years that he was there, we set the tone for the next 20.
Speaker 5:Back to your question. Change management is very difficult. I think in the military we had a change of commanding officer every two to three years, and so that would mean the strategic vision. A lot of those things were going to obviously change. In sport, when I was with the Dodgers for seven years, we roughly had about a 20 to 22 percent turnover of players and front office staff every year. So change management is just constant and I think for us philosophically, both within the military and professional sport, it starts with mindset, and I think that's part of the culture, as these gentlemen have said, that I think the mindset of you know challenge versus threat, and that sounds cliche, but I think a lot of organizations that have difficulty with change management or change have a very threat bias. This is going to be a threat to the way things were, as opposed to change is constant. This is an opportunity. This is nothing more than a unique challenge. So I think it starts with mindset.
Speaker 2:I heard somebody say on a podcast the other day that fear is optimized for survival, not for growth and improvement, and so it can be very valuable in very small levels and moments, but it's not how you build anything great.
Speaker 6:I think too, anson mentioned this word identity. We've talked about this word identity. That is fundamental to being a winning leader at any level, in any domain, in any industry, in your home. When that identity is anchored in the past, that's where you get in trouble with change management. And because if you can't outperform your self-identity and you bring in a new leader into a new organization or a new team to do that and the mindset and the value structure of the group that's in there is, but this is who we are, then you've got tension because the mission is going to change when you have change management Right and how you go about that is going to change and that means people's identity needs to be able to change. I need to ask myself who does the mission need me to be right now, regardless of who we were, regardless of how I feel, regardless of what? But who does the mission need me to be right now, regardless of who we were, regardless of how I feel, regardless of what? But who does the mission need me to be? That makes it, that makes it more than me.
Speaker 6:And when we look at trying to redesign cultures and there's some, there's some layers that we find in our research around decision making, such as the stakes have got to be high, like nobody's coming to your party if the stakes aren't high, like nobody's coming to your party if the stakes aren't high. When you went through the change and Alex came through, I mean the stakes were at an all-time high. We've got to look at winning all the things that you said, and when the stakes are high, that creates a different invitation for a different type of performer. But it's not just stakes. Then you've got to have sacrifice. The sacrifice is what am I willing to give up? Even if I am the high performer, even if I'm the best scorer, even if I'm the best salesman and I, you know, I brought in 200 million in the company last year I still have to sacrifice something in that conversation.
Speaker 6:That piece is real. Then standards, standards. Well, how high are we going to aim in those pieces? That's the third one. The fourth one there is selflessness. So you can have a high performer and they can be the baller, but are they willing to be selfless too? And again that comes back to just so many stories of Anson and everybody up here of what they've done. And then the last one, I think is the toughest too, is surrender. That's the last one You've got to surrender to the new process, or maybe surrender to elements that make you who you were, that you add on To be able to look at who those pieces are. And ego doesn't like to surrender. Ego doesn't like sacrifice, ego certainly doesn't like somebody else's standard and ego only likes their stakes. And so if you can filter through that just to help determine organizational change certainly doesn't like somebody else's standard. You know, an ego only likes their stakes.
Speaker 2:And so if you can filter through that just to help determine organizational change, that can at least give you some directional certainty. I've heard terms like trust, empathy, surrender. There was a clip from Gino Auriemma a couple of years ago. He was training before the Final Four and he said we had a practice and it wasn't great, and then we went and we practiced how we used to practice where it was really hard, and he said the best players said man, we got to do more of that. But there were plenty of players who kind of took a step back and said what is this? I'm not comfortable with this, took a step back and said what is this? I'm not comfortable with this.
Speaker 2:And I think what he was highlighting is some of what you've talked about the importance of training resilience. You've talked about the competitive cauldron and the fact that if you're number 32, you're number 32, do something about it. He's talking about culturally. It's really hard to do that and I think every coach who's being honest in youth soccer, especially college soccer, i'm'm sure it is a very, very difficult road to walk of. How do you get that sort of culture, that sort of competitiveness, that sort of stress, building trust with athletes, to actually embrace that right now, when that is very counter-cultural, and so I thought that clip was powerful because it exposed a really big challenge to me. It goes back to there's got to be some sort of trust built within the culture between the players, between the coaches. How do you build that?
Speaker 7:well, the best athletes in any sport work harder, right, they just put more effort in, they put more time in, they, they don't need to be told, right. I mean, there's no shortcut. There is no shortcut and and we, we hammered that down in, you know, in the disciplines, the organization, the shortcut, I think. I think we as a sport, as football, have got better, much better at looking after people across the piece, whether it's medical, mental, you know, diet much more individual. It used to be, everybody used to run 10k, because that's what you did, you know, that's what it was so we have moved on, but there is no shortcut.
Speaker 3:Austin Reeves from the Lakers. He was saying how when he first got there as a rookie to the Lakers, he made it his personal goal to beat LeBron James into the building on game day. And so he said the first day we have a game is 7 o'clock. And so I showed up at 3 o'clock and LeBron was already in there. And so the next time I showed up at 1 o'clock and LeBron was already in there. And so the next time I showed up at 1 o'clock and LeBron was already in there. And he said then I showed up at noon and LeBron was already there. And he's like he said, forget this man, I'm not showing up seven hours before the game.
Speaker 3:But then they showed LeBron talking about how he's doing what he's doing at 40. And he's like I've done, I've put all of it in, I've put all the work in, I take care of myself, I put all the work in and that's to your point. It's like there's no shortcut to this, like there's one way to get there and it's and it's not going to be easy. That's our challenge. Obviously, we're trying to help kids understand that it's not there's no easy to it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there's a cliche. This is the cliche I use. There are a lot of different ways to share this, but I think all of you guys will get the point. Average players want to be left alone. Good players want to be coached. Great players want the truth.
Speaker 4:Well, I've had the rare privilege of coaching some of the greatest players of all time I mean of all time and one of my favorites to coach was Michelle Akers. Michelle Akers might be the only player in women's soccer history that did not have a weakness, and let me tell you what my player conferences with her were all about. She would come in. She didn't want any praise ever for anything. If in the player conference, I didn't criticize her enough, she would leave a little bit disappointed in me and challenge me for the next time.
Speaker 4:I had to invent things in order to create criticism. I invented this thing called tactical agility, and this is it. I mean, all she wanted was criticism. Tactical agility is we're winning 5-0. There's 30 seconds left on the clock and the most aggressive outside back on the other team is about to kick you up in the air as the ball's rolling out of bounds and you're trying to protect it, have the tactical agility to realize we are winning 5-0. There are 30 seconds left in the game and I don't want your ankles above your head, so I had to invent stuff just to criticize her. But the thing I absolutely loved about coaching her is all she wanted was criticism. She wanted to be the greatest player of all time. All she wanted was criticism in every single meeting. So all these psychology, you know psychology tricks. We all learn to construct. You know better players. You know the sandwich. You know positive, negative, positive. So we surround the negative information with two pieces of positive information. God forbid, we have to do that these days for sure. But it was really interesting, this player that just she corrected absolutely everything Anytime you would give her any kind of criticism. All of a sudden, the next day in practice you would see her before practice or after practice working on your critique. And so this is if you want to be truly extraordinary, go there and then, just for the kids that are out there and the coaches that are out there, get Carly Lloyd's book. And I hope this doesn't insult Carly. I think she knows I respect her.
Speaker 4:I saw Carly when she was a junior in high school. I looked at her and I was thinking, no, I'm not going to chase her. I think if we had chased her we would have gotten her. I said no. And then all of a sudden I saw her ascend to becoming basically the best player in the world during a stretch, and then I bought her book because I wanted to find out what happened. Get her book.
Speaker 4:In the third chapter, smackdown, she talks about meeting James Galanis and about the relationship with those two, and she reconstructed herself. And so I think every player at the University of North Carolina the last ever since Carly wrote that book has read that book, and we spend more than one session on SmackDown, chapter 3. And so one thing that would be really cool within your culture is to have at least that chapter shared with everyone, because then what they're going to understand it gets back to what Eric was saying which, by the way, I love Eric about the adversative method. Galana sat down there and basically he didn't want to coach her. He said no, I mean you're lazy, I mean you've got a big ego, you're not fit. He just went, he just ripped her a new one, just listed all these different things, and she still wanted him to work with her. And then she reconstructed herself. So the players that want to be extraordinary. And she reconstructed herself. So the players that want to be extraordinary.
Speaker 4:And let me go back to what I said before.
Speaker 4:I looked at her as a junior, I said, no, I think we could have gotten her.
Speaker 4:In fact, what's really cool about her book? She talks about the last game she played in college. We destroyed her. Rutgers played the University of North Carolina and then we obviously took her out of the tournament. That was her last collegiate game. But what she did post-college was this is post-college, because some people think, oh, it's too late. No, no, no, this kid did it post-college, which, in my opinion, even takes her to a higher level based on what she did, and also, in my mind, it's accelerates galanis that was frank with her, and these days you guys are right you almost can't be frank with a player anymore because you're going to be attacked by the parents. They're going to be hiring Christian to serve as a lawyer against this. You know this coach in court based on something he said. And so, eric, I really appreciate what you're talking about with the adversative method and I'm going to have more conversations with you about that because I think that's the future for this culture of American player.
Speaker 3:Jeremy, do you have something to add to that? I just wanted to end with.
Speaker 6:I think with a the future for this culture of American player. Jeremy, do you have something to add to that? I just wanted to end with, I think with a lot of youth sports organizations, so not just youth soccer but baseball, basketball, volleyball, the ones that we get to go around. Culture gets mislabeled by young coaches and parents, where culture is the end game and culture predominantly has a social cohesion effect, meaning culture means we're going to go do a team movie night. Culture means we're going to go do some extracurricular and bond together.
Speaker 6:But in the world of high performance at this level, at the levels where everybody up here has been and been the reason of success and winning and even owning number one, that's different than pursuing number one. Culture is not driven by social cohesion, it's driven by task cohesion. And any sport is not a test, it's a task. And when young coaches who are pouring into young players, when they can look and figure out what's the invitation I can give today to the brains of these young men and women to invite them into cohesively accomplish a task, and then we have the best chance, I think, to be able to build some pretty incredible young people.
Speaker 3:Brilliant. I will double down on my most esteemed panel that we've had and that's unbelievable insight.
Speaker 1:We end every show with a thing called Bracken Brain Buster, and so we'll bring you the Bracken Brain Buster after this message from Soccercom.
Speaker 8:Soccercom is proud to partner with the ECNL to support the continued development of soccer in the US at the highest levels. We've been delivering quality soccer equipment and apparel to players, fans and coaches since 1984. Living and breathing the beautiful game ourselves. Our goal at Soccercom is to inspire you to play better, cheer louder and have more fun. Visit Soccercom today to check out our unmatched selection of gear, expert advice and stories of greatness at every level of the game.
Speaker 1:And, as promised, we end the show with Bracken's brain buster. Take it away, doug Bracken.
Speaker 3:Again. I said I don't know how I got that name, but Dean Linke has done a great job of keeping it going, and so I'm going to ask you a random question and see what your answer is. So I have a two-parter today, and I'm doing it in honor of us being in Vegas. Do you bet? And if you had to bet, if you don't, what game would it be? Roulette, craps, whatever, eric, you happen to be right next to me, so I don't bet.
Speaker 5:Okay, I think I lost when I was 18 or 21, whatever it was. When I was younger, I went into a casino with a hundred dollars and I lost it within five seconds. So I've made never betting again. So if you did, if I had to probably penny slots and I would stop after 10 minutes. Okay, good, good good shout.
Speaker 4:I had dinner last night with Mike Connerly. He's a big-time gambler.
Speaker 3:He does that.
Speaker 4:So part of the conversation when we were having this meal was about gambling, and so he asked me do I gamble? I said, well, I tried it a couple times and didn't leave a good taste in my mouth. And sitting right next to me is my wife and, by the way, christian, thank you for the way you're treating her. She's sitting next to me and we went to the Trotters Maybe it's in White Plains, I can't even remember where the Trotters are anymore White Plains, new York and we decided to bet. So I'm looking at the list of horses. My wife's maiden name was Gary and they had this horse called the Great Gary. So I decided to put money on the Great Gary, thinking that, you know, the stars would align and I would win the bet. And of course I did not.
Speaker 4:And the only other time I've gambled was with one of the Chisiewitz's. He had a clinic in Atlantic City and I was advised by all these gamblers from the Chisiewitz family how to gamble. And they said if you're losing in an establishment, what you do when you exit is to just throw a lot of money down to recoup your losses on one last bet. And, by the way, I won that bet and I recouped the entire loss for the evening of gambling. So I had one obviously bad experience with it and one on the advice of a gambling collection of Ukrainians Are they from Ukraine? I ended up surviving for that reason, so I've got sort of a mixed bag there.
Speaker 3:So if you had to, if you were going to gamble, would it be on horses? Would it be on to gamble.
Speaker 4:Would it be on horses? Would it be on? No, it would be. It would be sports gambling. So I would do my research.
Speaker 2:I would you know, I would figure out what you're leaning in on. What's that?
Speaker 3:I have a good sports book here. Oh no, I know.
Speaker 7:So there you have it, peter. No, I don't bet, not interested. I mean not even sure I know what to bet on, but probably, if I was forced, it would be on the horses.
Speaker 3:Fair enough, fair enough.
Speaker 6:I liked it. Like these three gentlemen, I have never gambled the only bet.
Speaker 4:I've ever done is to bet on me. That was the only bet.
Speaker 3:I've ever had. That's low-hanging fruit.
Speaker 6:But, with that said, my wife is on the way to vegas as we speak. She lands here in about an hour and, uh, she's never been to vegas and all she has talked about for two months is getting to go play blackjack. So I could be a poor man here by five o'clock today. Uh, you poor.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right where that goes, but uh, yeah, we'll see all right christian I, I have a very similar story to Eric of losing my $40, which was like every dollar I had at age 18 in about five minutes at Ho-Chunk Casino. So, no, I don't bet. And if I was going to bet, it would probably be sports I'd probably have fun with, like the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3:Not shockingly. I'm just like you guys. I am not a gambler, no interest in gambling. I can only imagine we appreciate Circa. Yes, that's right. I can only think, if I lost, of all the things that I could have done with that money and it would just eat me alive. But I think if I were to do it I would probably go roulette, just because it seems pretty exciting. Just that one thing. So that's what we got. That was our Bracken Brangos. Thanks for participating.
Speaker 2:I want to thank you guys for being here and for presenting. It's going to be our biggest event ever. We're expecting over 900 people, which has been unbelievable to see that growth. And the really cool part about it and I've talked to you guys individually on this is the people in the room are going to represent well over 500,000 youth soccer players across America and so some of these discussions and lesson it's a real opportunity or inflection point to maybe move the needle a little bit, because I don't think we can ever move it too far, too fast. So we just got to nudge it a little bit and move people in a good direction. So appreciate you being here, being willing to share all these stories, and thanks for your support.
Speaker 1:Thanks for the. This has been another edition of Breaking the Line the ECNL podcast. If you have a question you want answered on Breaking the Line the ECNL podcast, email us at info at theecnlcom. Thanks to our amazing panel, christian, doug, jacob, colin and the entire ECNL crew. For each and every one of them and all of you, I'm Dean Linke. We'll see you next time. Thank you for listening to Breaking the Line the ECNL podcast and remember, if you have a question that you want answered on Breaking the Line the ECNL podcast, email us at info at the ECNL dot com.