Breaking the Line: The ECNL Podcast
The Elite Clubs National League was founded in 2009 and continues to lead by daring to do things differently, embedded with grit, collaboration and tenacity – all things learned from the beautiful game. The ECNL protects and propels the integrity of the game and everyone it impacts by facilitating the perfect symmetry of excellence and humility, exclusivity and accessibility, freedom and community. We believe that challenging everyone to rise to their best creates game-changers that live well, long after cleats are unlaced. Born out of the belief in a better way. Continued in the ever-evolving pursuit of excellence.
Breaking the Line: The ECNL Podcast
The Future of American Soccer: A Collaborative Approach feat. Emily Cosler and Matt Crocker | Ep. 113
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Breaking The Line, the ECNL Podcast, went live and in-person at the ECNL Coaching Symposium at the Circa Resort in Las Vegas, NV for a historic podcast featuring executives from US Soccer. ECNL President Christian Lavers and ECNL Vice President Doug Bracken sat down with Emily Cosler, US Soccer Senior Director of Strategy, and Matt Crocker, US Soccer Sporting Director.
Together, the four conducted an incredible discussion surrounding US Soccer: what does the future hold for the sport within the United States, US Soccer's approach to the 2026 FIFA World Cup beyond, how the organization fits into the overall soccer structure within the country, and more. Ultimately, there was one theme throughout the entire podcast: collaboration.
Tune in for a riveting roundtable about soccer in the United States, and read more about the panel guests below.
Emily Cosler: Senior Director of Strategy, US Soccer
Emily joined U.S. Soccer’s strategy department in October of 2022. As the Senior Director of Strategy, Emily’s work has primarily focused on strategic projects including the U.S. Way Sporting Strategy, the Safe Soccer Clearance program, 2027 and 2031 FIFA Women’s World Cup bids, and partnerships with key landscape stakeholders such as National Member Organizations and Professional Leagues. She has also helped to support the implementation of U.S. Soccer’s new strategic vision, including matured business planning processes. Prior to joining the team at U.S. Soccer, Emily worked in management consulting at Bain & Company.
Matt Crocker: Sporting Director, US Soccer
Matt became U.S. Soccer’s Sporting Director in August of 2023, overseeing the entire Sporting Department and focusing on the Men’s and Women’s National Team programs, Youth National Teams, and the Extended National Teams. Crocker is responsible for setting U.S. Soccer’s sporting vision, overseeing the performance of all national teams, implementing the technical development plan, developing sporting culture, philosophy, ensuring greater communication, and sharing of best practices. Matt is formerly the English Football Association Head of Development Teams and Southampton Director of Football Operations - he brings more than 25 years of experience in player development and coaching with proven success at the club, youth, and senior international levels. A native of Wales, he holds a UEFA Pro License, the FA Technical Directors License, the FA Academy Manager’s license and has an Honors Bachelor of Science in Sport Pedagogy.
Welcome to Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast, where we cover all things ECNL and beyond. The ECNL was successful yet again, with nearly 1,000 coaches at the ECNL Coaching Symposium and AGM in Las Vegas, where the speakers were off the charts. We're joined by two more of the speakers, as Christian Lavers and Doug Bracken sat down with two distinguished members of US Soccer. We'll get to them in a moment. I do want to remind you that part of this podcast is hearing from you. If you have questions that you want answered, please send them to info at theecnlcom. With that, joining Christian Labors and Doug Bracken on today's show is Emily Kosler and Matt Crocker from US Soccer.
Speaker 1:Emily Kosler is the Senior Director of Strategy for US Soccer. She joined US Soccer Strategy Department in 2022. As the Senior Director of Strategy, emily's work has primarily focused on strategic projects, including the US Way Sporting Strategy, the Safe Soccer Clearance Program 2027 and 2031, entire sporting department and focusing on the men's and overseeing the performance of all national teams, implementing the technical development plan, developing sporting culture philosophy, ensuring greater communication and sharing of best practices. Matt is formerly the English Football Association Head of Development Teams and Southampton Director of Football Operations. He brings more than 25 years of experience in player development and coaching, with proven success at the club, youth and senior international levels. It is great to have Emily Kosler and Matt Crocker from US Soccer on. So with that, I turn it over to the CEO and president of the ECNL, christian Labers, who is joined by the VP of the ECNL and their chief of staff, doug Bracken. Take it away, christian.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the podcast Breaking the Line at the 2025 ECNL Symposium. I'm Christian Labers here with Doug Bracken. We're excited to have two of the presenters at this year's event US Soccer Senior Director of Strategy which is a mouthful Crushed it Emily Kosler, and US Soccer Sporting Director, Matt Cronker.
Speaker 3:Welcome to you guys Glad to have you here.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having us. Thank you. Just start real, simple and easy. Just give a 30 second answer on what you each do with US Soccer and then I'll go into the more hard-hitting questions.
Speaker 3:Perfect, I'll kick us off. So I'm Senior Director of Strategy. In my role, I get to oversee some of the new corporate development and strategic initiatives, so projects that are typically cross-departmental in nature and have a chance to really maximize the impact of what we want to do at US Soccer. So examples like our Safe Soccer Clearance Program, like our 2031 Women's World Cup bid, and also working closely with Matt and team on the US way and how we rethink and work together on the youth ecosystem Matt, us way and how we, you know, rethink and work together on the youth ecosystem.
Speaker 4:Matt A sporting director. So my role is to oversee the development of the 27 national teams, which are men's and women's senior teams, the youth teams on the boys and the girls, men's and women's side, and our extended national teams, and I describe it as being the gatekeeper of the culture and the philosophy of our national teams and the gatekeeper business, because I don't own it, doesn't belong to me and my job is to hopefully leave it in a in a better place than where I found it well, let's jump right into that topic and I know this may be embedded in the US way which you'll be presenting today to the almost a thousand coaches that'll be here, which is a fantastic opportunity to get that out to a lot of people.
Speaker 2:that are going to be impactful, hopefully, in getting it out to the grassroots. But there are famous countries with famous identities and how they play and the American identity or style of play, you could argue maybe there was one and then it's changed and evolved. Maybe we say what is it? So I'll direct that at you as what's your vision of what the American style should be, or do you believe that there won't be one that's across men and women and all national teams? How do you see style of play in our country?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's a really, it's a really great question to kick us off.
Speaker 4:And I think you know, first and foremost, probably the one thing to point out from US soccer's perspective is our job is not to try and dictate anyone's style on any league, on any club.
Speaker 4:You know, we understand, that every club is unique and every club will have its own ideas of, you know, both technically, tactically, physically, psychologically, socially, of how they want to develop its young players. I guess my role is to look at our 27 national teams and go what do we want the identity of those teams to be? And you know, of course, there are traits, american traits that we want the fans to see when they watch our teams, that reflect them as they sit in the stands. And you know, of course, you know we want to be a, you know, high, pressing forward, exciting, you know dynamic team. But also we want to embrace some of the grit qualities that exist in American sport where you know, when you're up against, you know, so-called you know difficult moments in games or so-called perceived better opponents, there's a real belief that you can overcome and win. And I think you know the American identity, in particular at senior level, around winning is going to be crucially important to our success going forward.
Speaker 2:And do you see a difference between the men and the women and how you envision that style coming based on? They're in different spots on the world stage.
Speaker 4:Yeah, of course. I mean, I think you know when I, when I both, when we went through the interview process with both uh, you know, emma and marizio, I think there was certain, you know, on field and off field qualities that they both bring and I'll give you some some examples. So, in terms of being outstanding cultural leaders who believe in the power of the individual, who believe in, you know, their roles as head coaches is to maximize the potential of the individuals within the group, within the team, etc. It's, it's, you know, a critically important part of the role. You know success for coaches doesn't always happen on the grass. You know there's so much time and opportunity to help players get better individually, as groups and, obviously, ultimately, as a team.
Speaker 4:So I think they were both a great cultural fit for us. But I think also both of them their ideology of the game reflects what we want to try and achieve from a national team's perspective, and I've mentioned, you know we want to develop technically outstanding players. We want to be front footed and aggressive and dynamic and fast, and you know both of those coaches, in their coaching history, you know, live and believe by those values. So you know that's why it was a great cultural fit and also a great game style fit for us.
Speaker 2:I'll dive a little bit into the pathway of players coming into the national teams, because I think one of the challenges and there's there's pros and cons at every level, but one of the challenges that people talk about a lot right now domestically is that there's a shrinking number of young Americans that are making appearances in MLS and that are playing in MLS as the it's become very, very heavy on internationals coming into that league compared to years ago. We obviously have some really talented players in Europe playing at various levels. In terms of how much time they're getting, how do you look at the professional pathway and what can we do to get more Americans, young Americans, opportunities in pro soccer here?
Speaker 4:Yeah, again, it's a really great question and I don't think there's one silver bullet that solves everything. I think it's probably doing a number of things better and you know, you can look at, you know the individual development pathway for players better and more educated on recognizing talent, what it might look like at certain ages and stages, and then also having a system that believes and allows high potential you know, young children or kids or players to hit bumps in the road and support them through those difficult moments to come out of the other end. So so I think things like individual development plans, player audits at club, top to bottom, that means that you might not sign that 28-year-old left back because you've got a 17-year-old who might be ready in the next 12 months and you don't fill that spot. So I think there's probably, like I mentioned, both in the player development space but also the overall club technical recruitment, sporting space, to make sure that everything is connected and aligned. And then, finally, for me it's about making sure that every club has its own identity and philosophy on player development and they hold themselves and each other to account on those moments, because you know, of course, you could be in a situation where, if you work on the talent ID team. You want to bring in players. You want to bring in players, but actually sometimes some of the best scouts are not to bring in players and recognize that you know there's somebody within the system that will be ready in a certain period of time to come through.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, I think we need to do a load of things better, and our job in that role as US Soccer because I'm sure the clubs are looking and going okay, well, what's your role in all this? Our job is to make sure that we are a really great support service to every club, to ask the right questions at the right time and for them to also look at us in the future to be a support mechanism for when they have questions or concerns or queries, that the first place they maybe look to in the future is us soccer, which you know I the conversations I've been having the last 18 months hasn't always been the case. So we have to step up internally first and we have to lead the way and show, hopefully, what good looks like. Um, but yeah, I think it's got to be a collaborative process would you?
Speaker 2:I know uefa has requirements on home trained players. Germany's probably most famous for requiring german-based players. Do you think there's a discussion that should be had about having some sort of requirement of either home trained players or american players within american professional soccer?
Speaker 4:I think that would be a really good discussion and debate to have and you know every club will have its different view on you know what that number might be and you know we're the same in US soccer and I've come from an environment where that is debated long and hard and heavy.
Speaker 4:But I also think you know sometimes the opposite side is, you know, rather than to dictate, you know sometimes to promote, to give more benefits to those clubs who are recognized as playing more and developing more and better homegrown players. I think there's an argument to have around giving more, whether that's US soccer, recognising that we can heavily discount or give a number of free places on our pro or RA licence from coaches from certain clubs who are developing more and better home and ground play. There's more resources available, there's more access to coach education, to our national team camps, to our national training center, et cetera. I think I'd love for a situation where we bookend both sides, that we have maybe some mandatory thinking around it but we also have some really great incentives that clubs feel like as if they're benefiting from player development.
Speaker 1:We're off and rolling on this edition of Breaking the Line the ECNL podcast. When we return, christian Labors will flip the switch to college soccer with Emily Kosler and Matt Crocker from US Soccer. That after this message. Did you know ECNL provides free recovery sessions? Ecnl has partnered with MarkPro, a staple for recovery in professional sports. Markpro is a unique, safe, portable e-stem device that feeds sore muscles and removes metabolic waste. Stop by the Recovery Zone during your next event. Welcome back to Breaking the Line the ECNL podcast, as Christian Lavers and Doug Bracken are joined by US Soccer's Emily Kosler and Matt Crocker. When we went to break, christian Lavers promised to talk about college soccer, and that's what we'll do. Now. Take it away, christian.
Speaker 2:So I'll go down a step then in the pathway to college and Emily, I know you've been in a lot of these discussions College soccer's kind of in chaos. You have the NIL issue, which I think is probably uniquely American. I like to say the Atlantic Coast Conference now includes the Pacific Coast. The Big Ten is actually 18. So there's all sorts of strange things going on in soccer. The revenue pressure on soccer is real, especially on the men's side. There's real issues on the developmental side of a three-month or a four-month season versus a 10-month season. So I just threw a load of variables at you.
Speaker 3:No surprises. That's a good thing.
Speaker 2:Where do you guys see college soccer in this pathway? And on the women's side, probably more people have seen it as part of the talent pathway and that may or may not be changing in some degree with the NWSL and I guess now USL as well. But where do you see college soccer in all of this?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I think college is the most uniquely American asset that we have. And you think about the money that's being spent on soccer specifically. Right, there's 212 Division One men's programs today. There's north of 350 women's programs that have some of the best one men's programs today. There's north of 350 women's programs that have some of the best infrastructure and facilities and support staff that that is truly being being spent on on soccer and historically it's existed almost in a swim lane, parallel to what the federation is doing or to parallel to what the, the youth members and or even the professional leagues are doing.
Speaker 3:And a lot of our goal, I think, moving forward is figuring out how to better integrate soccer into that player pathway that Matt spoke about. Right, that there's an understanding that if we unlock the resources and, just you know, capabilities that exist within, within the college space, so we actually have a really unique opportunity. And so we won't say you know off the bat that we've got to move immediately to a 10-month model and we have to do XYZ and we have to raise ABC standards. We think there's a massive opportunity for dual benefit, both from a programs and a university perspective, to start to reduce some of their costs, look at revenue potentials and protect student-athlete welfare and the US soccer perspective. We see an opportunity to have more you know, more kids playing longer into their career, being in a development environment that connects them with the pro leagues, connects them with the youth members. Right, there's creative solutions that the door has never been more open to because of all the changes in the college landscape you just talked about.
Speaker 3:The appetite is there in a place that I don't think the appetite to make big changes really existed even three years ago, and so a lot of our conversations today, on both the men's and women's side, is saying how do we best support student athletes, what's going to be best for our players?
Speaker 3:And then what decisions do we need to make that allows us to both support the really elite professional national team pathway but also the tens of thousands of players that see college as a great opportunity to get an education, to continue playing and then moving into coaching, refereeing, you know, talent ID, sporting director roles, because the support for those positions and for that staff actually largely comes from the college game and from those who have degrees and who played in those positions. So I think there's more benefits than just, you know, the pro or national team player pathway we see as a huge opportunity to have continued playing opportunities, to develop more staff education opportunities. There's more benefits than just, you know, the pro or national team player pathway. We see it as a huge opportunity to have continued playing opportunities, to develop more staff education opportunities and then also to support those players who maybe, you know, aren't quite ready to sign a pro contract or really value, you know, an education or some of those other components.
Speaker 4:I was just coming just very quickly on that, just with my technical head on. And you know, I think if you just focus it on the women's and the girls' side, you know, I think selfishly from the pre-pro and pro environment. You know, 65% of our players in our under-17s come from your environment, from the ECNL, which is tremendous credit to all the great work that's been going on. However, if, when those young women then go into the college environment and that season is only three months, you go to another country and the players on the same level as those young women are training and playing for 10 months of the season, it's not gonna.
Speaker 4:It doesn't take a rocket scientist to basically say that over a period of time, two things, one, one of two things will happen either you'll stagnate in your development if you stay here and do that three-month season, or you're going to get better if you are playing, you know, and training, because the training environment is critically important. If those, if the training and the playing environment is 10 months, it's longer, it's longer, it's, you know, it's you know of a varied level, you know it doesn't take a rocket scientist to go, we can't. The model's not sustainable long term for girls and young women on that side and you know we've got to think logically how we change that. And that's purely with my technical head on. But you know it's just, it's averages. You know you're going to stay here, but if you get this program you're going to go.
Speaker 1:Doug Bracken has a question.
Speaker 5:Do you think that our college and professional leagues think they have a role in development of the American player? I mean, we've talked about that whether or not they would say that that's a priority for them. It doesn't seem to be.
Speaker 4:I mean we had this debate. So you know we spent a lot of time over the last year internally within our national teams. You know the US way, what's going to be our style of play. You know how do we, how do we really want our coaches to coach these young players when they come into our environment. And you know, I feel like we've done some really great work on that and our national coaches are now fully aligned and it's launched internally. But what we've got to remember is we might be lucky to get 5% of contact time with players.
Speaker 4:Player development happens in clubs.
Speaker 4:95% and probably more of player development is the club's responsibility, because that's where the players are, that's, with the coaches for way, way more time than we can ever possibly imagine.
Speaker 4:Um, but we, what we have to do as us soccer, is celebrate that and recognize it and go. You know, hey, you know, if you've got players that are developing and doing well, you're doing some great work. But also, from us, us Soccer's perspective, we have to support the system better. We currently don't have a fully resourced coach education system to support all coaches in your environment and environments at grassroots or whatever the age and stage is. So we have to look internally, deeper ourselves and go what's our plans for supporting the game and being a service provider for the game in a much, much better, clearer way than we've ever done before. But player development happens in the clubs. We might be lucky just to add the cherry on the cake because of a youth World Cup or some times, that they come through the pathway. But coaches and clubs, local clubs, regional clubs, every contact in the pathway, that is the critical, most important part of any player development program.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and just to build on that, you know, something we'll talk about later during our presentation is there's been a pretty massive shift, I think, in the posture, the tone from US soccer where, exactly what Matt said, we want to be in service to soccer, in service to the clubs, whether it's the professional leagues or it's, you know, the first grassroots opportunity you have at the age of three, that we see our role as a federation to be in service to those groups.
Speaker 3:And so, whether that's through coaching, education and professional development opportunities, whether that's through a club and country partnership and using individual development plans, or whether that's through economic alignment and helping, you know, sustain college or sustain, you know, some of the growth and the commercial growth of these pro leagues, that they can be invested back into the landscape. That is the role that we see ourselves taking, and a lot of what UO Soccer will kind of look to share over the coming months is from that in-service to soccer mindset and seeing us as you know we're. We're down here supporting those who are, you know, in their environment, in their communities, in their cities, with the players, 95 plus percent of the time, and you know what can we do from a federation perspective to best support those environments is is. You know that is. That is point blank, what we're looking to do.
Speaker 5:I think we would all not that you guys should be held responsible for the past cultures of US soccer and how they interacted with the ecosystem. What's been the catalyst for that kind of change in mindset? Because that was not the mindset I think we would all agree with that. So what's been the catalyst for that kind of change in mindset from your side?
Speaker 4:So I've been in role 18, you know, 18 months now and you know the interview was quite a rigorous interview process and the one thing that really stood in my mind through the interview process was, you know, I think both from Cindy and JT the opportunity, for I don't mean like a fresh start or a blank piece of paper, because it's, you know, you always come into things that are built and things are great, but there was a real like a thirst for drive and change. And you know I'm a project, each type of guy and I just got really excited about the opportunity that existed to, you know, not just because we've got these amazing events coming up like world cups and olympics and stuff, but to use, you know, not just because we've got these amazing events coming up like world cups and olympics and stuff, but to use, you know, not those events just great, we've done those events. Now we go back to doing what we've always done, but using those events to to be in the catalyst for real long-term change and opportunity in the country. So I think that's what what you know truly excited, uh, me, and you know you'll hear us. You know there's nothing that we're proposing, that is any is rocket science or revolutionally or changing. There's no. You know the game evolves. You know there's nothing new in the game, as we all know.
Speaker 4:But I think the biggest thing that we want to do is we want to collaborate, we want to work with, we recognize there's bits in the past that we haven't done and we haven't got right, and we have to look at ourselves first. But you know this word, this, this word in service to the game and in this country, is, is going to be our, our sort of mantra going forward. You know we we want to authentically be the, the one-stop shop for all of your coaches and technical staff and administrative staff and other operations staff that exist at every age and level of the game. We want US soccer to be the first port of call for any training, questions, concerns, challenges, complaints. You know we really want to get better and I think you know the approach that Cindy and JT led by the leadership, is let's just be more open and work collaboratively with the environment to get to where we want to go.
Speaker 4:But I think one more point I want to make because I know I've talked a long time is we also know that we'll hit moments where not everybody will agree and when those moments come, we as US soccer, as the governing body, we have to say this is our research, this is where we're coming from, this is the why and we're going in that direction and we want everyone to come with us. But we're not going to be able to please every environment all of the time. But I think as long as we are open, we are honest and we listen to the challenges that come the other way and we adjust based on feedback, I think we have an opportunity of achieving something special in this country with the way the game could be set up.
Speaker 2:I'm going to look specifically at the pathway for like a 16 to 20-year-old male player, because I think it's the biggest challenge we have right now in the country. I mean your numbers there's 350, some odd college female choices. There's far less college men's programs. I think the numbers are somewhere around half of the men's programs are international players. So again, we have a similar problem with the young American, Not only is it hard to get? Into pro.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's hard to get into college, both levels. The financial challenges on the men's side, for a variety of reasons, are higher. Obviously, the Federation just settled a well just won a very long-running case with the old NASL in the pro spaces, because there's not a robust structure of multiple levels of pro leagues as there are in other places. So that's a real. There's a real challenge of what happens to those top, top kids and even if I think we're being honest, in most of the academies, the pro academies, even the youth players are still generally playing youth players. There's not a lot of youth players playing men or playing multiple years olders. How do we solve that issue? Because to me that's that's a really big problem and it's starting now to be felt all the way down to the parent of the youth player saying, well, if my kid's really into this, where's the next step? Taking him, because it's harder and harder to see that.
Speaker 5:I would just piggyback on that, because I think this is probably part of the answer is how important is alignment in the ecosystem, because we have a lot of different entities, right? How important in that quest? The ecosystem of youth pro college, everything how important is alignment in that quest to service all players, but that that particular demographic as well we left the easy questions outside no, listen, I'll start.
Speaker 3:I think, um, uh, to the, to the last question here we talk a lot about.
Speaker 3:I think there's importance for alignment or collaboration, but there isn't a one perfect pathway, and I think that's something as part of the ecosystem review and the past work we've done over the 18 months and recognizing that one of the strengths of of the US is being able to offer different pathways that could have the same, the same end outcome, so that, no matter you know if you play in LA and you have access to an amazing ECNL club from day one, or you're in the middle of, you know Montana and and you just love soccer and you want to play we need to be able to ensure that there are proper pathways for a different, a different type of kid one that starts earlier in their uh, you know, their adolescent, one that starts later but it can still have a chance to make it to whatever their desired end outcome might be.
Speaker 3:Is it the national teams? Is it the pro leagues? And so I think collaboration and alignment is important, but not forcing a certain pyramid structure or a one-way fits all, because that, in my opinion, takes away some of the actual strength of what we're trying to do. In the American soccer landscape, we have a lot of people that want to invest and to support, and we need to make sure that there is collaboration versus a forced pyramid, in my opinion. But I'd be curious your thoughts, matt.
Speaker 4:No, I agree with you, thank goodness.
Speaker 2:And I'll just add some context to that. I mean, if you look, we talk about the country as a continent. There's 30 clubs in MLS. There's like four USL championship teams west of the Mississippi you could find I wouldn't even want to guess the number of pro-level clubs in London at various levels. So there's just a gigantic gap for that player. What do we do about that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, we talked about one thing. I was talking to JT, your CEO, a couple weeks ago about that 18 to 22 year old. Um, right, one of my big projects right now is looking at the college soccer opportunities, and right now that is a gap and you've got even in the college landscape. You're flying west coast, east coast, east coast, back to the west coast. You're playing three to four months and you maybe go to class two days a week because you're on the road.
Speaker 3:The rest of them and, um, I think there becomes a question when you you turn 18, of what's best for me.
Speaker 3:Is it to go and try to work with mls? It's to go to college, is it to go to europe? And so I think we need to have, uh, larger amounts of um support and direction for that player and allow them an opportunity to have a proper development cycle. So if that means 10 months in college and changing for a subset or all of the 212 Division I men's programs, if they want to all to move to a model like that, we'd be all for it, we want to support it, we want to figure out what's best for that player. But I think, in general, we are of the mindset that having structured opportunities for a proper player development pathway uh, at that 18 to 22 year old, especially on the men's side is is a current opportunity for us to figure out what we, what we want to do about it, so that you know we have chances to keep american players here if that's what's best for them, or, to, you know, send them to a club that is best for them.
Speaker 4:So it's all focused around the player and what their needs and desires are, and then we can build the infrastructure and systems around that you know I come from from a country where there's 92 professional clubs in a tiny little island and you know everyone, a majority of those clubs will have a, you know, free program, from under nines all the way through to under 18s, through to under 23s, through to first team and probably the. There isn't a kid in the country that is more than 30 minutes away from any one of those programs. So you know, that's quite a unique and different setup and that's maybe the challenge that we look at and go. You know that's a that's a significant, you know, opportunity for that country. But when you think of the US and you think about the size, the scale, the resources, the number of kids that you know play soccer now but also could play soccer in the future, there's also some like unbelievable opportunities that we could, if we build the right pathway and the right partnerships and we have the right collaboration and the right systems that there's um, there's some real opportunities that could, you know, um, be better than what majority of our neighbors face.
Speaker 4:I'm sure in there, I'm sure they're looking at us going wow, look at the access and the opportunities. I think sometimes you always look at things with either a glass half empty and I think, if we look at the glass half full model, yeah, it recognises things that we can learn, but we also understand geographically there's so many differences. But what are our opportunities? The resources in this country, the number of kids, the, the number of kids, the number of kids that aren't that could be playing, how do we get it in every community? Um, you know, um, because a lot of disadvantaged kids right now who would love to play soccer and maybe might not have that opportunity. So how do we, how do we think collectively about solving those problems together? Um, I think that gives us some great opportunities.
Speaker 2:One of our sort of approaches has been by broadening the base of the competitive player and raising the level of the average, you're starting to push the top up and so you're growing wide and you're pushing the top up and it's running now into that sort of artificial ceiling, now that you have so many players that are saying, okay, now I want more. And it's hard. That, I think, will be a big project. I'll ask that maybe within the context of 2026 is a big moment. I went to the World Cup in 1994.
Speaker 2:I remember being in Chicago for one of the games as a young kid. How do we make the momentum and the moment of 2026? And I know there's some things after that. They're not quite as big as 2026, but how do we extend that as an inflection point and not a momentary party where the nation's attention is on soccer and then it moves on, because that's kind of seemed like how big events here have been in soccer is. It's a really high, exciting moment, whether it's the Olympics and the women or it's the World Cup, and then life goes on as normal. There's no sustained momentum.
Speaker 3:I think there's a couple opportunities right. So you look at 1994 and the birth of MLS coming out of that World Cup and then you look at 1999, obviously with the women winning that year. It took us a couple tries, we eventually got to the Women's Professional League. That was the, the legacy, if you will, of of 1999. And so last year us soccer officially announced soccer forward foundation as our legacy platform or legacy program for the 2026 world cup. And really the focus of of that platform will be on advocacy and and expanding impact and access to the game.
Speaker 3:And so what you know matt just talked about I think cindy's go-to line is that we want everyone to be able to walk, take public transit or ride a bike to a safe place to play soccer. And a lot of what Soccer Forward will look to do is not US soccer coming in to run a bunch of programming. But how do we start to equip communities? Equip our members, our state associations, schools, recreational clubs to bring soccer to their community and bring it ina safe manner so that when you're nine years old and you're watching 2026 and you're seeing soccer for the first time and you go, hey, mom, I want to play next season, it's not a complete mess trying to figure out where that opportunity is. Or if you say, hey, man, my friends and I we just watched the US with this huge upset when we want to go play soccer, how do we make sure that you know where a place to go walk or ride your bike is to go play soccer?
Speaker 3:And so I think a lot of the focus on 2026, as of right now, will be on access and participation and getting those kids in at the very beginning of their love for the game and then figuring out OK, we've got them here, what is the pathway? Look for them, whether it's to stay recreational this is always a social element to them or they want to be the next Alex Morgan or Sophia Smith or Christian Pulisic or Weston McKinney and they want to figure out what that pathway looks like. 2026 Legacy will be a lot about ensuring every kid has a chance to do that and follow their dreams, no matter what the dream looks like.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I also think from the team's perspective. You know the team has a has a vital role to play in, you know, not just on the field. I mean on the field is critically important because the fans want to be excited and the kids want to go and watch and go wow, I want to, I want to play soccer after that, if you're a parent, you go great, I want to get involved in the game, whether that's as a referee or a coach or whatever, or administrator, whatever, whatever that role might be. And of course, the team's performance on the field is going to hopefully create that energy and that excitement. But I also think the stories of the players behind the scenes.
Speaker 4:You know we, as we, as US soccer, have to do a better job at telling the stories of the players, where, where they come from. You know the leagues, the teams that they started with their first coach. You know why they fell in love with the game and you know you see it now on. You know a lot of these behind the scenes. You know documentaries, you know fans. Of course they want to see the game, but they want to really deeply build a connection with the players and the team behind the scenes and I think you know from US soccer's perspective, we started to talk about how do we tell the stories of the players better, and I think we're doing some nice work behind the scenes that will hopefully be able to launch that prior to the World Cup. So I think there's on the field stuff going on, but also the off the field stuff.
Speaker 2:I think if Dean Linkey was to chime in here he would talk about Alexi Lalas using some bright red hair in 1994 to launch a long media career, quite probably intentionally and I think he's nodding in the background there. So I understand that. Agree with that. Second question here bigger picture, and I know you I think you worked at Bain.
Speaker 3:I did.
Speaker 2:Don't hold it against me, You're very very good at at analytics, benchmarking and comparisons and obviously you have a background in in england. What lessons would we take and you might have very different perspectives on this or areas. What are one or two things from other countries that we can take here and do well, but not be the flavor of the month, because there has definitely been been a. Well, we were going to be like the Dutch, and then we're going to be like the Spanish, and then we're going to be like whoever's the flavor, and we can't do that. That's not sustainable. But what are some things that we could take from other countries? One or two things that say whether it's business or structure or player development or whatever, and if we really intentionally embedded it into our system, would whatever?
Speaker 4:and if we really intentionally embedded it into our system, would move the needle in a positive. I love the question when he said about you're from bain and you've got an analytics background and you're and you're from england.
Speaker 3:You know you're in england. You must be wicked smart no, definitely no, definitely no.
Speaker 4:I mean, look, I mean, you know, I think I think, if I just look back, there was so I, um, I was. I was fortunate at the time to to join a different federation. I joined england in 2011 or 12. Um, when it was just at the infancy of building this national training center. Um, the charter for quality, which was the defining system for player development in the country, was coming to the end of its life cycle and there was a lot of talk about the elite player performance plan and new ideas and new ways of working.
Speaker 4:There was also talk about collaboration between, you know, the English FA, the Premier League, the Football League, the grassroots game wasn't talking to each other and all aligned. And you know, we, as England at that time, hadn't won anything since 1966. But, yeah, every major tournament was coming. You know we, as England at that time, hadn't won anything since 1966. But, yeah, every major tournament was coming. You know which is ridiculous. You know it's ridiculous, you know it was. So I think it was a moment in time where the country came together and you know same types of things. You know, what are the FA going to be leading on? What do they believe in? How are they going to support the game? What's the role of the premier league, the football league, the football foundation and the grassroots? And I and I do feel that you know a clearly aligned plan and a vision for the whole game, which was, you know I think it was um unite the game, inspire a nation. You know that that was the logo, the, the sort of the mantra that was drilled in, and all these. You know the number of projects across all of these. Um, you know various governing bodies, federations, across all of these. You know various governing bodies, federations were created, as well as the National Training Centre and the role of England and the England DNA and stuff like that.
Speaker 4:And it feels so similar to what we are going through now, where there's this moment in time where, if we don't grab this now, I'm not sure the game will ever fundamentally change in this country, you know. So the similarities are. My biggest learning from that period is, you know, like, seize the moment. And it's hard because you know there needs to be so many difficult conversations and you know collaboration and relationships built that were have been fragile and been broken in the past, but you know we have to all see this as an opportunity to all start on the starting line together and go. That's where we want to go and what do we all need to give and take to support that system going forward. So my biggest learning is like seize the moment. And you know, I can really sense that starting to build in the background yeah, I'll go a little bit of a of a different direction.
Speaker 3:I think one of the topics that we've talked about a lot recently is how do we build stars that transcend the game? Right, those players where you think about, it's been, you know, 25 years and mia ham is still a household name. Right, you look at what mess has done no matter where he goes, there are millions and millions of people that follow you. Look at what Sam Kerr did in the 2023 Women's World Cup and how you have an entire country who is watching a sport because you have these larger-than-life figures and stars who, obviously, it starts with performance on the pitch and there's a certain element of their goal scorers, their incredible players. But I think a lot of what Matt just talked about starting to tell stories about how these people have come from communities like ours, how they are invested, a different level of attention and investment into the game that again goes all the way back down just into the landscape.
Speaker 3:Us Soccer is a nonprofit. We're not looking to profit off of our national teams or keep the money for ourselves, but when you have an opportunity to have those figures that transcend sport and they're at the ESPYs and they're walking the red carpet during awards season and then they're up in New York on on talk shows. There's an opportunity to get a certain fan or a certain demographic that maybe historically hasn't grown up with soccer. That wasn't what their kind of first love was, and you know, in the U S, I would argue, many people their first love is, you know, either the NFL or baseball or their college team. And there's a smaller subset of people where where soccer is that first one.
Speaker 3:But when you have that star power it starts to bring a different, a different type of fan. Or maybe you know historically someone who wasn't engaged into the sport and so if I could, you know, wave a magic wand and wish something for 26 or for some of these other events, it would be to have those larger than life kind of figures and players who have an opportunity to, I think, captivate, captivate a country and rally. You know the 330 plus million people that we have here behind behind a team. So that's when things get you know, really really exciting.
Speaker 2:The answers are interesting because it sort of highlights the complexity, because you have the technical piece You're talking there a lot about marketing and storytelling and branding. You have a business piece, which I'm sure there was a lot of that in England as well and you have the difference of opinion between a club owner at one level versus club owner and another versus the Federation versus everything else. I mean it's a really difficult set of factors to align. Was that similar as well when you're describing what was going on in England?
Speaker 4:Hugely, hugely similar. You know you've only got to think of the Premier League and I say this respectfully you know you've got 20 shareholders or clubs all with one vote each. If you want to get something changed, it's potentially 14, 14 votes, and even that's to do with youth development. You know you want to. You know, look, look to make a change, but the needs of a man city versus the needs of a southampton or an ipswich, so this respectfully, because it will be very, very different. Um, so you know, you imagine that then, on a greater landscape, when you start to then think about football league clubs and then the whole grassroots game all coming together. And you know there was a lot of this. You know some, some, some organizations had to give some stuff up that they'd done for a long time to, you know, truly benefit the whole system. And you know, but in, you know, in return there was, there was obviously a big collaborative program that went on behind the scenes.
Speaker 4:And you know, you only got to look at, you know, individual player developments in in england 10 years ago or past that was, they weren't, they weren't producing enough technically good players.
Speaker 4:And you know they've gone from that to, hopefully, the modern day now where you can really see a lot of great young kids exciting, coming to the system.
Speaker 4:But that's not necessarily all to do with what the FA did at the international level or the Premier League did at the youth level. That's to do with the kids first experience, when they were five, that the coach was able to give them what they needed to fall in love with the game rather than out of love with the game, because, as we both know these, you know kids of today have so many opportunities to play a variety of sports, why choose soccer? So you know everything had to feel connected like a golden thread that ran through everything. And you know, I think england did a a good job at doing that and I think you know we have to do an even better job. Um, and, by the way, the size, the scale, the scope is a hundred times the size and it's a hundred times more complex. But I think if everyone comes together with the right intent, which is to put the player at the center of the process, then we've got a great opportunity.
Speaker 1:Okay, we're going to take another break and be back with Christian Labors and Doug Bracken and their visit with US Soccer's Emily Kosler and Matt Crocker. When we return, Doug Bracken asks Mr Crocker specifically the importance of coaching education.
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Speaker 1:Welcome back to Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast, another special edition coming out of the ECNL Coaching Symposium and AGM in Las Vegas. I turn it back over to the ECNL's Doug Bracken.
Speaker 5:You mentioned access for all players at the grassroots level and all that. How important is access to coaching, education to more coaches, and how do you do it?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm going to take this because I am, by the way, super passionate about this. It is the biggest lever that we can pull to positively influence player development in this country. Because coach education, if done right and scaled up, will give us the opportunity to have a touch point with every coach that works at every age and stage across the country. And if we can do it in the right way, that doesn't just tell that. Actually it's not about telling, it's about us sharing, it's about us collaborating, it's about us giving resources to support that coach. It's about us sharing and, you know, working with them in their own environment and within these clubs.
Speaker 4:If we can build that system and I know where we are now compared to where we need to go to to fully grow that out, to be able to cover the country the size and scale that it is but as a governing body, that is our responsibility for the game. It's not I say this respectfully Wales' responsibility or France's responsibility. That's us as Americans to do that. And you know I'm passionate about making sure that the next sporting director is American, that the next, you know the coaches are coming through are American, the administrators, et cetera, et cetera. So you know. I think coach education by far is our biggest lever, because we've got an opportunity to really support and influence the coaches that work every day with those players, whereas we only get that 50 days a year, if we're lucky.
Speaker 3:A million percent.
Speaker 3:I think one thing that we've just started to talk about, too, is the first interaction is often like a parent coach or a volunteer coach, and so obviously, the importance of licensing and what we do at the pro level and the A level and the B level.
Speaker 3:But what are we doing to make sure that you know, the parent of their five-year-old who just wants to play soccer has the right toolkit so that they make sure they're creating an environment where there is fun and there is belonging?
Speaker 3:And how do we provide them with, you know, easy resources where they show up, you know, to the field after work, 10 days or 10 minutes before, and they have, you know, a game plan for practice already set, because US Soccer provide them with that and they don't have to do all the work themselves. The more we can take off of the plates of those volunteer coaches or those parents, especially at that grassroots level, the more we can start to ensure that there's fun and there's belonging and that people's first interactions with the sport are a really positive one. And then, obviously, where we go building on that from a licensing and from a more competitive level is important. But that's one thing we've talked a lot about with Soccer Forward Foundation and the US Way and every nook and cranny of US soccer is what is that first touch point? How do we make sure that, no matter what your background is, you have the opportunity to create that environment?
Speaker 2:And those are two very different problems. Right, you that environment, and those are two very different problems. Right, you have mass mass numbers at a very low level, yep, but then because licensing and education is one thing, but there's been a huge lack of mentorship or opportunity as well. I mean, I think we see this when a national team coach job becomes open and you say who is prepared at all to take that job? What is the? There should be a list of people that have had enough experience or enough qualifications to say they're ready, and then you choose the right one.
Speaker 2:And I think it feels like and this is not just a US Soccer Federation thing, I think it's been everywhere it's been a very closed shop in terms of providing opportunity, access even for people just to observe, for people to be embedded for a little bit, to create that sort of bridge to the next step, because being successful in college as a coach doesn't mean you're gonna be successful as a pro and being successful as a u16 youth coach doesn't mean you're gonna be successful in college. I mean this the game is the same in some ways. Obviously there's some differences, but the context is entirely different, and that's been missing as well. Is that some something you guys think about in terms of training at the higher levels for a broader pool of coaches?
Speaker 4:no, absolutely. I think there's, you know, and we you can talk about the bookend and you know the opportunity to really positively influence that first grassroots experience, but also those coaches who have either been identified as future high potential coaches. And the best way to identify those coaches is through eyes on the ground. You know us being in their environments and seeing and working with clubs and having the relationships with clubs where, you know, we begin to find those things out and we get to see ourselves and we get the feedback from the clubs themselves. But then also, you know how do we utilize our national team programs. So it's not just always about formal coach education, it's about coach development and how do we give them the coach development moments that give them the opportunities and the experience to be better prepared for those types of roles and jobs when they come up in the future. And you know we're already beginning to talk about with our 27 national teams and the activities that will be going on at our national training center. How do we make sure that we get, you know, solar surf coaches or whoever it might be, into our under17 camp to see a training day, to see a game plan, to see, you know, spend time with a coach, understanding how they work and also to test case whether what we say we're doing in the US actually gets delivered within our national teams to support and challenge us equally as well. So and then, how do we build you know programs where you know they get an opportunity to come with us on our you know, on key tournaments, whether it be youth World Cups, et cetera to give them those, hopefully, those unique experiences that might just give them a little bit something a bit different on their CV when they go in for these roles.
Speaker 4:When we've done our research over the last 18 months and we've spoken to some coaches, it's amazing that everybody thinks the answers are on the grass. But when you are going for your interview and you're put in front of your board or you're put in front of people who are going to be the key decision makers, it's amazing how many coaches don't know how to write a CV. It's amazing how many coaches don't know how haven't got their playing philosophy nailed down in a 30-minute presentation. It's amazing how a lot of them can't or not can't, aren't necessarily great in the team room. You know, be away from the grass, you know. These are all skills that the modern coach, as well as understanding data and analytics, you know there's. There's such a mix of experiences now that you need to be a top level coach, but it's amazing how many coaches focus the answers being always on the grass when you know. If you're lucky, that's 10% of your day.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think we've made it what 45 minutes or so before bringing up the national training center, and the opportunities that that facility will present for community building and mentorship on and off the pitch will be exceptional. We talk a lot about it being programmed 365 days a year. So you know, even though there's only six FIFA international windows, what does it look like to have education opportunities, you know, learning in these environment, opportunities throughout the entire year, and so obviously our headquarters and our staff and our offices will be there, but we'll have space and facilities for all of our members to host their annual general meetings there. If we want to host referee workshops, coaching, education classes, having that facility, the unlock it will provide to support everything we're doing, from a philosophy perspective, will just be massive, and I think it will be something that we look back on you know 10, 20 years and say that was a huge game changer in our ability to to scale and test some of the initiatives that we're talking about today.
Speaker 3:I know we both moved down to Atlanta over the past. You know a couple of months in preparation for that and just the excitement that that facility will be not just for the 27 national teams but every single person who's participating in soccer. That's what gets us excited knowing that it should be a place that you know. You want to go to Cooperstown as a kid playing baseball, like you want to go to the National Training Center, whether you're a parent, you're a player, you're a coach, you're a ref, you're an administrator, you're a scout, because that is the home.
Speaker 2:And for Doug, is there going to be an over 50 national team that he might be able to try out for? No, I don't run.
Speaker 5:I don't run.
Speaker 3:Listen, we got the fields for it.
Speaker 5:For the AGM to go there, you're going to need some blackjack tables, I mean listen, we've got some VIP spaces.
Speaker 3:They look pretty swanky. I saw the most recent renderings, so we will definitely have, uh, some opportunities for for folks to go and step in and say man, this is a world-class facility that is helping us build world-class teams and staff and and opportunities.
Speaker 5:So, as you guys have kind of undergone this uh adventure of evaluating us soccer or the ecosystem or all the things we've talked about, is there one thing that's jumped out to you that either was like wow, that's a huge challenge that we really need to get an answer to, or even something that you've been pleasantly surprised about, that you felt like you could lean into Any one thing that struck you. Either way, as you you guys have done that. Go for it, I'll follow, I mean.
Speaker 4:I mean the.
Speaker 4:The one real positive is, you know, as we begin to, you know 18 months of listening and learning and, like I mentioned, there's nothing new in our, in the U S way.
Speaker 4:But you know, when we've began, when we're beginning now to articulate this and maybe I'll be wrong today, when we present to you guys, is the the real positive sense of, you know, organizations that we've spoken to going yeah, we want to be part of that and we don't know exactly what that right means right now, and I'm sure there'll be some challenges um to to solve, but everywhere we've gone, there's been a real positivity and an energy for this could be the moment and we need to take it. So I think that's been the real positive. The thing that I'm still trying to wrap my small little brain around is the W. The W, the focus on winning at young age levels and the production of league tables that focuses on the team. That is right at the very top of that scale, because my experience sort of tells me that that's not always the best indicator of talent and talent development. There's a lot of whispering talent. It helps you acquire talent here yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:And I think you know as a parent. A question that I would love to ask parents is do you send your child to a place that wins, or do you send your child to a place where wins, or do you send your child to a place where there is great development and individual development happening?
Speaker 5:what they say and what they do are the opposite, are two opposite things. So they say development, but what they do is I and I guess you know, I know I want you to answer this too, but what I would say is we are and I hope I think you guys would agree we're a fairly young soccer culture where a lot of people who played the game at a reasonable level a level that helps you understand the game there are more of those people coming into the culture and so maybe that could be the answer to alleviate some of that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I think you know the winning is an important American trait, but I think it's a difference between a winning mentality and a win-at-all-costs mentality.
Speaker 5:We shouldn't let winning get in the way of our main task.
Speaker 2:We just want to make US soccer great again.
Speaker 5:Wow, golly no comment.
Speaker 2:By the way, I'm coaching my son's under-8 team. I'm two training sessions in.
Speaker 4:I can tell you that winning is nowhere near the realm of possibility at this point, is it a humbling experience?
Speaker 2:Oh, anywhere near the priorities as well.
Speaker 4:I think winning at that age is trying to just keep them all on the same field.
Speaker 2:Like surviving the hour and a half is the win for me.
Speaker 5:I went from college coaching to youth coaching and one of the first teams I had was a U9 girls team and I first two weeks I went home and said I have no idea what I'm doing, like I can't control these kids at all. So it is a humbling experience.
Speaker 4:And it's even harder when it's your kids as well.
Speaker 5:Yeah, he and I are different. I made the conscious effort not to coach my kids. But back to you on the one thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'll just hop in quickly, right? Um christian called me out earlier. You know backgrounds in management, consulting and so I'm going to give, uh, more of the business answer. But, uh, I nerd out over the potential economic alignment that could happen in this country when I think about the opportunity to, um, you know, really maximize what we want to do and really propel american soccer into the next stratosphere of opportunity.
Speaker 3:Here. We're spending billions of dollars already as a country on this game. How do we start to actually align economic incentives so that we're contributing to the same end outcome of that player development versus, you know, trying to fight with one another over said player? And it's way easier said than done and there's, you know, a billion considerations to work through.
Speaker 3:But when I think of an opportunity to, you know, foster the pathway that we've talked about today to increase investment in the game, if you can start to drive alignment between the federation, between our pro leagues, between our youth organizations in college, and start getting people to swim in the same direction, or even put them in the same boat and row in the same direction, uh, that just feels like a huge potential opportunity for me and it might be a 20-year transformation that we have to go through. It might be a 20-month one, but when I just look at the the quantity of money that is being spent on sports in america, and I think of the opportunity that we have if we can properly harness that for good and for a way that ensures soccer is accessible, I would quit all other jobs in life to answer that question and to figure that out, because I think it presents such a unique opportunity.
Speaker 1:What a wonderful visit, with Emily Kosler and Matt Crocker from US Soccer joining Christian Lavers and Doug Bracken at the ECNL Coaching Symposium and AGM in Las Vegas. We've reached the point where it's time for Bracken's Brain Buster, and that's what we'll hit after this message.
Speaker 6:Soccercom is proud to partner with the ECNL to support the continued development of soccer in the US at the highest levels. We've been delivering quality soccer equipment and apparel to players, fans and coaches since 1984. Living and breathing the beautiful game ourselves. Our goal at Soccercom is to inspire you to play better, cheer louder and have more fun. Visit Soccercom today to check out our unmatched selection of gear, expert advice and stories of greatness at every level of the game.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast, another special edition coming out of the ECNL Coaching Symposium and AGM in Las Vegas. I turn it back over to the ECNL's Doug Bracken.
Speaker 5:Just for context, Dean, our esteemed host of the podcast, always includes his wife in the answer somehow, and if I ask a question he always gives him multiple answers, so he's set the bar for everybody Pretty low.
Speaker 4:Yeah, pretty low.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's right. So we make fun of him for that. So I'm going to ask the same question I asked the last group, because we're all here in Vegas. The question is are you a gambler? And if you were, what would be your game of choice? We're actually just discussing this very question right before we sat down here, so we are somewhat prepared, actually, I am not a gambler.
Speaker 2:Emily was like please take my ATM card so I don't control it. If I could control a billion dollars of soccer spending black or red, yeah, right on that roulette.
Speaker 3:I am not a gambler. I have a slightly addictive personality, so I don't think it would be good to enter into the gambling stratosphere. But every once in a while Super Bowl Square, march Madness bracket, a World Cup bracket I like to dabble a little bit there, you know, while I spend 50 bucks on a blackjack table, maybe, uh, but anything beyond that, but you're not a gambler.
Speaker 5:It's not my thing, you know, I'll set. I've done all these things you know.
Speaker 3:20 bucks here, maybe 50 if we're feeling for a ski.
Speaker 5:Maybe you're in denial as well.
Speaker 3:Cognitive dissonance, yeah you know, that's, that's how you you know what is it. Uh, ignorance is bliss, so I'll just stick with that. But uh, not, I will. You will not find me at 2 am downstairs in the the circa resort poker tables. I can promise you that.
Speaker 4:All right, matt, it's a boring answer, but it's exactly the same. I'm again. I'm not a gambler, but what I will say is we did a great um in about 2017. We did a. We were a lot of talk with our national coaches when we were with England around probability, so we actually got a professional poker player in. So we had Gareth South getting all the national coaches around with the chips. He taught us how to play poker and basically it was amazing to observe the behavior of these coaches, who got excited and chucked everything in which reflected their personalities zero restraint.
Speaker 4:You know 10 minutes to go, one nil down what do you mean?
Speaker 2:counter-attack?
Speaker 4:yeah, yeah, yeah it was amazing to watch the the various personalities unfold and how those were connected to the coaching behavior so that's gonna do a boring answer and then tells like this great story to be a gambler, where what would be your game? It would have to be Blackjack 21, because that's the only game I know to play.
Speaker 3:So we'll both be at the Blackjack table.
Speaker 2:No, all kidding aside, I'll just answer that question with saying if you would have bet in 2016 on ECNL and US Soccer, having a pleasant podcast and a lot of good discussions and relationships, you would have made a lot of money, because that was not on the scorecard. So credit to you guys and your teams for doing all the work that you've done to bring US soccer in a different direction and to bring US soccer, I think, closer to all of soccer, and us specifically appreciate that and the alignment stuff resonates with us. You'll hear that out of me tonight a lot as well, and so no, no and thanks for the the invite.
Speaker 4:And you know we understand, you know if we're going to, if we're going to hopefully make these positive changes that you know. I think there's that saying if you want to, if you want to go far, go together. If you want to go fast, go alone. And I think collaboration in this process is going to be so critical. So thank you for having us here, letting us present, and hopefully we can get the right level of support and challenge from you guys to help everybody move forward.
Speaker 5:What do you say? Ditto, thank you guys. Yeah, obviously we all cheer for our uh, for our country and and want the best for it. So, uh, you certainly have our support and we look forward to working, working with you guys.
Speaker 1:But thank you guys thank you guys appreciate it we certainly appreciate emily cosler and matt crocker from us soccer. Great job by christian lavers and doug bracken, our incredible team. Jacob bourne was huge. Reed sellers was huge. Our producer Jacob Bourne was huge. Reed Sellers was huge. Our producer Colin Thrash was huge. Everybody at the ECNL, always outstanding. In fact, for each and every one of them and all of you, I'm Dean Linke. We'll see you the next time right here on Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast. Thank you for listening to Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast and remember if you have a question that you want answered on Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast. And remember if you have a question that you want answered on Breaking the Line, the ECNL podcast, email us at info at the ECNL dot com.